The England batting line up

[Pothas]

I dont really think Cook should be considerd yet. Strauss although he has had dificulty in the subcontinent always gets 100's and his test career really has been impressive so far. He and Trescothick are for the second best if not the best best opening parternship in the world and i think Cook must wait for now.

 

[marc71178]

ODIs however is a completely different kettle of fish with him averaging well below what a batsmen should be,

A recent CI article about number 3s showed he had the 3rd best average at 3 in the World over the last 2 years.

 

[Richard]

Which just goes to show how misleading a handful of games can be.

 

[open365]

One man yet to be mentioned is, of course, Mark Butcher - if he starts the season (and only if - we still don't know for certain if he's shaken-off the injuries) and scores plenty, he's got to be pushing for a place. And I for one would give it him without much hesitation...
Trescothick
Strauss
Butcher
Vaughan
Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Jones
Jones
Hoggard
Anderson \ Giles-if-pitch-looks-like-turner (unlikely)
Pietersen is pushing his luck for me, he's not played well since his 4th innings. Any more stupid strokes which cost him his wicket and I'd give him a break, hopefully to teach him a lesson.
So far I find it difficult to leave-out Collingwood, despite his wholly unconvincing nature of run-scoring. I have plenty of doubts, still, about Vaughan and Pietersen for not-dissimilar reasons. Strauss I hope will regain his run-scoring when he's back in England.

That should be funniest post of the week.

 

[Pothas]

ah that is a little harsh. I know it isnt going to happen but Butcher was a pretty good player and if he was at the level he was a few years ago then i would definetly have him in the side, but that if is not going to happen

 

[Richard]

That should be funniest post of the week.

Not really - Butcher hasn't done too much wrong and deserves to be in the hat if he starts scoring runs again.

 

[tooextracool]

TBF it's the sort of thing he's obliged to say, like those oily politicos who blithely mutter "I've no ambition to be Prime Minister" whilst quietly plotting the best way to thrust a blade between the incumbent’s shoulders. Not that I'm suggesting Fred is planning a coup or anything, but I think it'd be bad form if he said "yeah it's my lifetime ambition" with a (v successful) skip convalescing! If Vaughan is left out I think he's proved to be a stronger character than Tres, so he'd get my vote.

really? yet its ironic that Flintoff said something very similar to the line you just made up not long after the ashes: "I think everyone in the side has got aspirations of captaining their country, if it ever came up I'd jump at the chance," he said. "At the moment Vaughany is doing an unbelievable job, I'm enjoying playing under him and long may it continue but if - maybe a few years down the line - there was a chance then it's obviously something you'd have to be interested in."

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/england/content/story/223262.html

strange that his opinions seemed to have change not long after captaining england....

 

[tooextracool]

I agree with you about Chris Read,it is times for Jones to go. However i would not drop Vaghan but would make it perfectly clear that he has to get runs, he can no longer fall back on the fact that he is the captain and cant be dropped. I think Sri lanka is a good series for him to get some runs. I would be tempted to drop pieterson just to remind him that he is not a big player yet but that is not going to happen.

well i was thinking the india series would be make or break for vaughan as a player but he missed it.
honestly though i think the selections for the next test match should be based on performances in FC cricket, at least for the bell/collingwood/shah/cook/vaughan debate.

 

[tooextracool]

I don't see how it's Geraint's time to go, since by all accounts he's kept bery well [minus a few blunders] in India, and having watched the series in Pakistan I can say he kept very well.

He is definately improving, and at a good rate.

i dont understand... wasnt the reason why we dropped chris read because his batting was not good enough? jones hasnt done too much better than read with the bat and is inferior with the gloves. the reason i choose read though is because hes had 2 good domestic seasons, and hes proven himself on the A tour with the bat,and his glovework is impeccable. i do however respect the effort that geraint puts in, from what ive read about him at least he usually the first person at practice and the last to leave and apparently asked some of the indian photographers to take shots off his keeping from different angles to help him with his technique.

 

[SJS]

ah that is a little harsh. I know it isnt going to happen but Butcher was a pretty good player and if he was at the level he was a few years ago then i would definetly have him in the side, but that if is not going to happen

Butcher was good it was a surprise to see him gone so suddenly.

 

[tooextracool]

Read has shown no evidence of improvement to me.
He's always scored runs at the First-Class level but, for whatever reason, he's just not managed to translate it into Test runs.
A shame, really, but I can't see it changing.

his FC record says otherwise.

 

[adharcric]

Richard & tooextracool, can you guys try not to make every single meaningful thread turn into a one-on-one debate (argument?) between the two of you? Let a few threads live in peace. Just a request.

 

[wpdavid]

Butcher was good it was a surprise to see him gone so suddenly.

Almost entirely due to injuries. He was an automatic pick until he mised the home tests vs WI in 2004. He then went to SA, played in the 1st 2, got injured again & flew home. Then he was injured for virtually the whole of the 2005 season.

It's hard to see him returning though, unless there's a spate of injuries similar to those that saw him recalled in 2001. He was consistently OK from 2001 to 2004, averaging 40 IIRC, but he had a tendancy to give it away after getting a start. Plus his dreadful catching meant he was often in debit when he batted anyway. He did play some crucial knocks - notably at Trent Bridge in 2003 and in the first couple of tests in the Caribbean in 2004 - but it's probably time to move on.

 

[GIMH]

i dont understand... wasnt the reason why we dropped chris read because his batting was not good enough? jones hasnt done too much better than read with the bat and is inferior with the gloves. the reason i choose read though is because hes had 2 good domestic seasons, and hes proven himself on the A tour with the bat,and his glovework is impeccable. i do however respect the effort that geraint puts in, from what ive read about him at least he usually the first person at practice and the last to leave and apparently asked some of the indian photographers to take shots off his keeping from different angles to help him with his technique.

Chris Read has a Test average of 15.30, which compares unfavourably to Geraint's 27.75. Read has played eleven matches for England, after 11 matches Jones averaged 33.93.

And obviously you can't read too much into this, but after 11 matches each, Read had made 31 catches to Geraint's 38, though he had 4 stumpings to Jones's 2.

There is no doubt that Jones's batting is better than Read's, and the strides he has made and is making with his keeping have been mentioned by many - he is going through a slump with the bat ironically, but dropping him would be pointless, and I for one feel he has earned his place in the side.

 

[Richard]

his FC record says otherwise.

Yet he was scoring First-Class runs in 2002 and 2003, as well. Not quite so many as in 2004 and 2005, no, but enough.
Read simply IMO lacks the temperament for Test batting. There's nothing obviously wrong with his technique.

 

[Richard]

Richard & tooextracool, can you guys try not to make every single meaningful thread turn into a one-on-one debate (argument?) between the two of you? Let a few threads live in peace. Just a request.

Do you really imagine it's deliberate on the part of either of us?

 

[Pothas]

Yet he was scoring First-Class runs in 2002 and 2003, as well. Not quite so many as in 2004 and 2005, no, but enough.
Read simply IMO lacks the temperament for Test batting. There's nothing obviously wrong with his technique.

and Jones does have the temprament? Do you remember the hideous way he got out in trent bridge test in the summer, and that is just one of a number of very poor dismissals

 

[Richard]

I remember most if not every hideous dismissal of GJ in Tests. With every one I despair of him a bit more.
But I still think he'll very probably do better than Read. The problem, too, is that he plays brainless strokes so often that it masks the fact that he's actually been pretty unlucky with many good deliveries of late.

 

[Pothas]

Yet he was scoring First-Class runs in 2002 and 2003, as well. Not quite so many as in 2004 and 2005, no, but enough.
Read simply IMO lacks the temperament for Test batting. There's nothing obviously wrong with his technique.

before his very poor tour of the West Indies he had averaged around 30 in the 2002 and 2003 county seasons. Since then he has averaged 50 in 2004 and 46 in 2005. This is a very considerable improvment. Ok maybe he cant cut it at test level but we wont know unless he is given another chance. If he can average about the same as Jones then he should be in the side for his superior keeping.

 

[GIMH]

Read needs to oust Matt Prior before he can even think about getting ahead of Jones anyway