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Thread: Is Imran one of the 10 best bowlers ever?

  1. #16
    State Vice-Captain sirjeremy11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson
    England, Australia and the West Indies have all produced 10 better bowlers than Imran Khan if you're talking about of all time.
    That is a HUGE call.

    I also believe it to be incorrect and look forward to seeing the thirty players named. I expect Mick Lewis may just fail to make the cut.
    We will NEVER forgive "Umpire" Ian Robinson

  2. #17
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Yes, I would also like to see thirty bowlers who were better than Imran Khan.

    I would place him probably 7-10 all time in the quicks department.

  3. #18
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    I'm shocked that anyone would think there are 30 bowlers ahead of Imran! Please name them for my gratification as well. Imran IMO is a lock for the top 10. As has been mentioned on this board, he missed the prime of his years due to injury. Add to that some of the series he missed due to personal conflicts, and it's not a stretch to think he could've easily been in the 400 club, if not the 500!

  4. #19
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    He'd easily make the top ten in my opinion.

    Didn't he average something like 19 with the ball for the last 60 tests of his career?


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    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra
    Charles Davis' all-time top 10 taken from Wisden Australia 2005-06 after a painstaking statistical analysis.
    Except statistics aren't the be-all-and-end-all.

    Imran's easily in my top 10.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danish
    No Abdul Qadir?
    Yeah, a surprise.

  7. #22
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    Stats will never show the true pictue.

    Zaheer khan took 4/3 in his last spell in faislabad test 2nd innings.Looks sensational but it was hardly of any significance.

  8. #23
    SA
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    For me Imran is the:

    Best bowler of alltime
    Best allrounder of alltime
    but
    he comes 2nd in my ranking of greatest cricketers of alltime.

    Imran bowled with express pace on dead wickets where no one had thought to do so.In his last 50 odd tests ,his batting & bowling averages of 50 & 19 put him above the likes of Gary Sobers,Ian Botham,Richard Hadlle & Kapil Dev,in the list of greatest allrounders of alltime.His bowling record is superb against all test playing nations.Under his captaincy,his team drew 3 test series with WI when everyone else was being whitewashed in 70s & 80s & then he lead Pakistan to their World Cup triumph in 1992.Players like him are born in centuries,if not milleniums.Whoever says Imran isn't among the top 10 of alltime is being biased & needs some more knowledge of cricket.Many geats including Richard Hadlee consider him the 2nd best allrounder of alltime but I disagree with them because Imran was the only allrounder amongst them all,who would make his team on the basis of his performances in one department alone.

  9. #24
    State Vice-Captain Francis's Avatar
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    top 10 pacers for me ( no particular order) : Wasim, Ambrose, Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Imran, Trueman, Donald, Davidson and Holding.

    I'd wager to bet that if you asked all those bowlers who the greatest fast bowler of all time is, they'd say Dennis Lillee. Wasim and Hadlee being two I know of. I believe I heard Davidson saying the same thing about Lillee as well - the best ever. I believe Marshall thought that as well.

    top 10 spinners : Murali, Warne, Bedi, Chandra, Grimmett, O'Reiley, Laker, Gibbs, Kumble, Gupte, Saqlain.

    Benaud is the first noticable exclusion. Qadir probably deserves to be in... but I didn't blink seeing that you didn't put him in there.

    For me Imran is the:

    Best bowler of alltime
    Best allrounder of alltime
    but
    he comes 2nd in my ranking of greatest cricketers of alltime.


    I found this interesting. I don't agree with it, but I always felt Imran was closer to Sobers than people realise. Sobers was by far the better batter... but I always thought that Sobers was overrated as a bowler. I mean people said he could bowl anything... that's all and well, but was he effective? Was he one of the 50 greatest bowlers ever? Nope.

    I'll put it to you this way. Is Sobers one of the ten best batsman ever? Yes. Is Imran one of the ten best bowlers ever? Yes. Is Sobers one of the 100 best bowlers ever? Possibly.. Is Imran one of the 100 best batsmen of all time? Possibly. See where I'm going? It'll always be Sobers for me though as the best all-rounder.

    Anyway I think he may just squeeze in. After my top seven there are a lot of contenders... I should have included Ambrose in my original contenders. Bur I think I'd have Imran in because of what he could do with the old ball.

  10. #25
    State Vice-Captain BlackCap_Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SA
    For me Imran is the:

    Best bowler of alltime
    Best allrounder of alltime
    but
    he comes 2nd in my ranking of greatest cricketers of alltime.

    Imran bowled with express pace on dead wickets where no one had thought to do so.In his last 50 odd tests ,his batting & bowling averages of 50 & 19 put him above the likes of Gary Sobers,Ian Botham,Richard Hadlle & Kapil Dev,in the list of greatest allrounders of alltime.His bowling record is superb against all test playing nations.Under his captaincy,his team drew 3 test series with WI when everyone else was being whitewashed in 70s & 80s & then he lead Pakistan to their World Cup triumph in 1992.Players like him are born in centuries,if not milleniums.Whoever says Imran isn't among the top 10 of alltime is being biased & needs some more knowledge of cricket.Many geats including Richard Hadlee consider him the 2nd best allrounder of alltime but I disagree with them because Imran was the only allrounder amongst them all,who would make his team on the basis of his performances in one department alone.


    Sorry, but Sobers is better than Imran.
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  11. #26
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    I'd wager to bet that if you asked all those bowlers who the greatest fast bowler of all time is, they'd say Dennis Lillee. Wasim and Hadlee being two I know of. I believe I heard Davidson saying the same thing about Lillee as well - the best ever. I believe Marshall thought that as well.
    Lillee has more reputation than substance in my opinion...doesnt take away from the fact that he was an alltime great bowler but its similar to overhyping Ronaldinho to be in Pele's class. Lillee's record against the best batting lineup of his time (the WI) is modest.
    His record in subcontinent is abbysmal, not to mention such a brief sojourn in the subcontinent leaves a huge question mark on his performance on unfriendly pitches.
    It is interesting that you take Lillee as one of the greatest ( the greatest in your opinion) and relegate Murali as 'great but not so great' despite the stats being exactly the other way round.

    Benaud is the first noticable exclusion. Qadir probably deserves to be in... but I didn't blink seeing that you didn't put him in there.
    IMO the last 2-3 places in the spinner's lineup arnt fixed..i wouldnt bat an eyelash if someone put Qadir and Benaud in and took out Saqlain and someone else.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SA
    For me Imran is the:

    Best bowler of alltime
    Best allrounder of alltime
    but
    he comes 2nd in my ranking of greatest cricketers of alltime.
    Best bowler of all time is debatable but there is no way that Imran is the best allrounder of all time or the 2nd best cricket of all time.

  13. #28
    State Vice-Captain Francis's Avatar
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    Lillee has more reputation than substance in my opinion...doesnt take away from the fact that he was an alltime great bowler but its similar to overhyping Ronaldinho to be in Pele's class. Lillee's record against the best batting lineup of his time (the WI) is modest.

    Perhaps, but in 1981 he took 7 wickets in a very short spell and then four in the next, taking a tenfer. To this day people remember him taking that last ball of the day wicket of Viv Richards. The West Indies were the best in 1981 and Lillee was the reason Australia won that and drew that series. Ask any of those Australian players which team w3as better and they'll say the West Indies.

    His record in subcontinent is abbysmal, not to mention such a brief sojourn in the subcontinent leaves a huge question mark on his performance on unfriendly pitches.

    Pakistan was the only place he suffered greatly in. Arguing weather or not Lillee performed on bad pitches is pointless. I was watching ESPN's legends of cricket and a rash of fast bowlers were talking about how awesome Lillee was on bad pitches. The main discussion was the MCG, which provided unresponsive surfaces in Lillee's career. There were endless stories about how well he did on bad pitches. Bob Willis said he was even better on bad pitches because he didn't want to give you anything. Only his tour of Pakistan is a great blemish and he only played there once.

    It is interesting that you take Lillee as one of the greatest ( the greatest in your opinion) and relegate Murali as 'great but not so great' despite the stats being exactly the other way round.

    Stats mean so little when there's maybe a few runs inbetween the avergage. Just one extra wickets per match caused by any of the many variables that come into play can effect average such as.

    What pitch conditions does so and so play on most of the time.
    Does he get wickets because of pressure
    Does he have wickets stolen off him because of great bowlers
    What were the overhead conditions like? Did they allow the ball to swing.
    Did he contribute better with pressure than wickets

    Oh there's more and more. Stats are useless when there's such a small difference. There could be absolutely nothing between somebody who has an average of 24 and somebody who has an average of 20.

    Most importantly

    And as much as we can both go back and forward with these variable and argue them, it's impossible for us to find a balance between them without watching these players. Can a marathon bowler do better by himself? Yes and no. Can a marathon bowler do even better statisticly with a great attack? Yes and no. Both are possible and I never disclude your view on it. What I'm saying is since both are possible, one can only judge how big of an impact these variables had if somebody has seen the bowlers bowl.

    Lillee isn't a reputation. Hadlee saw him bowl and thought he was the finest ever. It's almost a universally accepted fact for all who saw him. And that's what weights greatly on my mind because I know stats can be misleading and people who saw Lillee bowl understand what impact he had on games. One thing can cannot be disputed is that Lillee was renound for impacting spells and people saw how he did it.

  14. #29
    State Vice-Captain sirjeremy11's Avatar
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    Anyone else notice that the "Thirty Better Bowlers Than Imran" list has yet to arrive?

  15. #30
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirjeremy11
    Anyone else notice that the "Thirty Better Bowlers Than Imran" list has yet to arrive?
    Yeah I'm still waiting as well.

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