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Thread: Shoaib's slower ball

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    Shoaib's slower ball

    Is it legitimite? Amid all the criticism of England's batting one feature seems to have receved little comment. Aside from Tres and Jones, three of the batsmen were dismissed by balls they simply didn't see. This is to go with the countless deliveries that didn't get them out because they weren't straight or because the ball by chance just happened to hit a bat placed in front of the Stunmps more in hope than expectation. It was often said during the chucking controversy of the sixties that the real problem was the extreme difficulty of picking up slower balls. So, bearing in mind that Vaughan has always had a bit of a problem with good slower balls (although usually being caught driving too early), has Shoaib suddenly developed one of the Most devastating slower balls in history (which was leaving the batsmen clueless even when bowled once or twice an over ie. as something less than a surprise delivery) or is something more sinister going on? And if it's not, then any advice on how to play it will be gratefully received at the England team hotel!

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    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Why must something sinister be going on? Shoib can bowl 95 mph regularly. When he drastically reduces his speed, it can throw any batsman for a loop. It's as simple as that. Bowlers have always used the slower ball to great affect for ages!

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    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    Is it legitimite? Amid all the criticism of England's batting one feature seems to have receved little comment. Aside from Tres and Jones, three of the batsmen were dismissed by balls they simply didn't see. This is to go with the countless deliveries that didn't get them out because they weren't straight or because the ball by chance just happened to hit a bat placed in front of the Stunmps more in hope than expectation. It was often said during the chucking controversy of the sixties that the real problem was the extreme difficulty of picking up slower balls. So, bearing in mind that Vaughan has always had a bit of a problem with good slower balls (although usually being caught driving too early), has Shoaib suddenly developed one of the Most devastating slower balls in history (which was leaving the batsmen clueless even when bowled once or twice an over ie. as something less than a surprise delivery) or is something more sinister going on? And if it's not, then any advice on how to play it will be gratefully received at the England team hotel!
    There we go..When Harmison was bowling slower balls..no one questioned those..now that Shoaib bowls some englishmen with his slower ones..here you come with this crap.

    Now I just hope that you dont own a tabloid or work for one.

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    SJS
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    Its a strange suggestion. There is not just nothing sinister about his slower ball, it is actually not a very clever one. Shaib must bowl one of the worst disguised slower deliveries in world cricket. He hasnt gone about learning it which he could with the number of fast bowling greats his country has produced.

    He doesnt use a change in grip as is used by many great fast bowlers which reduces the speed with neither a change in action nor, and much more importantly, a change in the amount of work put in by the bowler. If Shoaib were to come in and put his everything into the delivery and it stil came at the batsman 10-15 kmph slower, it would get him lots of wickets of top order batsmen.

    What he does , however, what any streetside fast bowler would do, come running at full pace and then deliver a slower ball by actually putting in less effort. All top order batsmen see it. Thats why he rarely gets a top order wicket with it and that is why the speed differential is 30-35 kmph !! Ridiculously large and impossible to fool a good batsman with unless he has made up his mind and refuses to check his stroke/intentions.

    Sorry my Pakistani friends, this is not an attempt to run down a star and one of the exciting fast bowlers in the world but to state a fact.


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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion
    Why must something sinister be going on? Shoib can bowl 95 mph regularly. When he drastically reduces his speed, it can throw any batsman for a loop. It's as simple as that. Bowlers have always used the slower ball to great affect for ages!
    You dont understand..Bowlers have been bowling slower balls for ages..but when was the last time England lost a series in Pakistan..esp the one which had just won the ashes.

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    Hall of Fame Member Smudge's Avatar
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    Picking up a slower ball from an action like Shoaib's is always going to be more difficult, due to the lack of sight the batsman gets of the ball normally. It looks like a great ball though - and totally "legitimite" (sic).

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    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Absolutely nothing wrong with Shoaib's slower ball, and I can't see how anyone could possibly claim it isn't legitimate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz
    You dont understand..Bowlers have been bowling slower balls for ages..but when was the last time England lost a series in Pakistan..esp the one which had just won the ashes.
    lol. England had lost this series long before Shoaib suddenly started producing unplayable (by England's batsman anyway) slower balls. The point is that, as SJS says he doesn't do anything clever with the ball and wasn't even bowling it as a surprise delivery (which is the ONLY reason Harmison gets any wickets with his). If it's effectiveness has been helped (and i'm not automatically saying it has, i've seen no slow motion footage) by a slight kink in the elbow, then it may even be entirely "legal" under the ICC limits. But it is a fundamental problem with the ICC regulations that they at no point recognise that bowlers, by varying their speeds, can gain a dramatic advantage over batsmen on even the flattest pitches.

    So that still leaves the request for some advice on how England go about combatting it. Because on the evidence of yesterday they would even be in danger of being bowled out by Shoaib in a couple of hours on a first day pitch at Antigua.

    EDIT: And I withdraw the word "sinister" - a bad choice of word.
    Last edited by greg; 03-12-2005 at 11:47 PM.

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    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    If it's effectiveness has been helped (and i'm not automatically saying it has, i've seen no slow motion footage) by a slight kink in the elbow, then it may even be entirely "legal" under the ICC limits. But it is a fundamental problem with the ICC regulations that they at no point recognise that bowlers, by varying their speeds, can gain a dramatic advantage over batsmen on even the flattest pitches.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    lol. England had lost this series long before Shoaib suddenly started producing unplayable (by England's batsman anyway) slower balls. The point is that, as SJS says he doesn't do anything clever with the ball and wasn't even bowling it as a surprise delivery (which is the ONLY reason Harmison gets any wickets with his). If it's effectiveness has been helped (and i'm not automatically saying it has, i've seen no slow motion footage) by a slight kink in the elbow, then it may even be entirely "legal" under the ICC limits. But it is a fundamental problem with the ICC regulations that they at no point recognise that bowlers, by varying their speeds, can gain a dramatic advantage over batsmen on even the flattest pitches.

    So that still leaves the request for some advice on how England go about combatting it. Because on the evidence of yesterday they would even be in danger of being bowled out by Shoaib in a couple of hours on a first day pitch at Antigua.
    BTW, I am amazed how Shoaib is seen as having won the test for Pakistan. Todays papers are full of Shoaib.

    Hindustan Times Bombay has a huge coloured pic of Shoaib on the front page. On the sports page it leads with an article " ALL FOR QUAKE VICTIMS".
    It has a byline that goes...Shoaib Akhtar, who took five England scalps, dedicates win to disaster affected.

    Thats what Shaib said he did it for . Wonder who informed him of the earthquake at lunchtime or was there another one yeaterday afternoon

    Then the article is mostly about Shoaib.

    It has another article on the same page os how Shoaib is now a complete team man !

    Indian Express Bombay leads with SHOAIB PLAYS LEAD ROLE IN LAHORE...with a byline....Kaneria does well in support cast to plot England's collapse..

    Again the article is mostly about Shoaib with another big photograph of him celeberating a wicket.

    Times of India Bombay leads with Ashes to Ashes... and a huge coloured picture of Shoaib !

    Really now. It was Kaneria and Kaneria all the way. At lunch time England looked like they might save the game after all. Pakistan, including Shoaib who was looking tired and well below his best except when bowling a few short pitched one's (he was unluckuy with one LBW at leat). Then after lunch, Kaneria came out with a changed line , on the middle and off or outside, bowled from over the stumps and not round (so successfuly marketed by Shane Warne ) and England were wrecked !!

    Beautifully pitched leg breaks, which drift in due to the angle of bowling from over the wicket forcing the batsman to play and then deviate away after pitching mixed with deliciously bowled googlies, exactly like the ones above but now curling right through what looked like firmly closed gates, and Englands batsmen were doomed.

    This is what won the match for Pakistan. Yes Shoaib came up and cleaned up the lower order but after Kaneria's three wickets it was only a matter of time before any of the Pakistani bowlers did that but without those three wickets, Shoaib, with or without those 125 km per hour slower ones, would have struggled to win the game for Pakistan.

    It was a travesty, btw, that on this dead wicket, the bowlers' work went unrecognised and the man of the match award went to a batsman.
    Last edited by SJS; 04-12-2005 at 12:00 AM.

  11. #11
    International Regular shaka's Avatar
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    I was impressed by his ability to bowl such a slow ball (around115kph) as a yorker length on stump, amazing.
    winner of formula 1 prediction thread 2005 competition and look forward to next year

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS
    He doesnt use a change in grip as is used by many great fast bowlers which reduces the speed with neither a change in action nor, and much more importantly, a change in the amount of work put in by the bowler. If Shoaib were to come in and put his everything into the delivery and it stil came at the batsman 10-15 kmph slower, it would get him lots of wickets of top order batsmen.

    What he does , however, what any streetside fast bowler would do, come running at full pace and then deliver a slower ball by actually putting in less effort. All top order batsmen see it. Thats why he rarely gets a top order wicket with it and that is why the speed differential is 30-35 kmph !! Ridiculously large and impossible to fool a good batsman with unless he has made up his mind and refuses to check his stroke/intentions.
    I don't agree with this at all. What I've seen is that he lets the ball slip out of his hand, which makes it loop up and spin a little.

    What he does , however, what any streetside fast bowler would do, come running at full pace and then deliver a slower ball by actually putting in less effort.
    I could say "I disagree with you", but I think a better thing to say would be "you're wrong". That's it. He is definitely bringing his arm through as quickly as he normally does.

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    SJS
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    A slower ball (from a fast bowler) works on the principle of the batsman not being able to read it or see it coming. A bowler who bowls close to 150 and then bowls one which is 115 kmph is unlikely to get a good batsman not to read it.

    To say that a slower yorker is good simply because it is slow and is a yorker is akin to saying that a spinner bowling a yorker is great.

    A yorker can work for slower bowlers too and does sometimes but the slower ball from a fast bowler is bowled to decieve the batsman into believing that its a normal speed delivery and play for one.

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    SJS
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    This is not to deny Shoaib his success with the slower delivery but to just state my opinion that he would be much more effective with this delivery if he could bowl it at speeds not that different from his normal delivery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS
    A slower ball (from a fast bowler) works on the principle of the batsman not being able to read it or see it coming. A bowler who bowls close to 150 and then bowls one which is 115 kmph is unlikely to get a good batsman not to read it.

    To say that a slower yorker is good simply because it is slow and is a yorker is akin to saying that a spinner bowling a yorker is great.

    A yorker can work for slower bowlers too and does sometimes but the slower ball from a fast bowler is bowled to decieve the batsman into believing that its a normal speed delivery and play for one.
    You're ignoring the point I'm making. And also, I have the feeling that the only reason you think he's putting less effort into it is because it's so slow. I've been watching the whole series, and not once has he bowled a "less effort" slower ball.

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