Well you give me your candidate and I'll make a case for Freddie. I think I will be able to make a decent case, based upon his allround performance, which is all that is really required for him to be arguably the greatest cricketer on the planet. Doesn't mean I'll be right - there can be more than one arguable greatest cricketers!Choora said:
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Aren't the Englaishmen getting carried away??
- Thread starter GladiatrsInBlue
- Start date
sqwerty
U19 Cricketer
I guess it's not just the stats that count.Choora said:
If you look at him in terms of how he can turn a match it's probably a fair assessment.
He certainly proved against Australia at least that he can be equally devastating with either bat or ball.
He's certainly come on in the last year. When I watched him in one of the recent series overseas....can't remember where it was.......he looked to me like a steady at best sort of bowler and a batsman that certainly didn't belong any higher than 7.
Now he could easily take the new ball for any national side in the world (except England) and he's a solid (though not 100% reliable) number 6 in my mind. I consider his bowling to be his strength but he's about as close to a complete all rounder as you get which the world rarely sees. He bats better than Kapil Dev, Imran Khan and Hadlee so he's right up there.
I just think that its premature to make a case about Freddie right now.Let him play more against the likes of India,Pak etc (as we are talking about greatest cricketer).Great players are proven performers against most teams, Freddie simply haven't played enough to be compared with any of the great players.greg said:
simmy
International Regular
Botham has a canny habit of being "right" dont forget! He was saying years ago that England would have a fast and menacing bowling attack with Jones and Harmison and was correct.
To be honest... England have won the Ashes without their best bowler, Harmison, (sorry Freddie) doing much! His article did mention England's full strength bowling attack being a handful for any side... well if they too good for Aus without Harmison (which they were) then surely they only need to prove themselves in the sub-continent. I think a lot of people forget how good he really is. Like McGrath, who otherwise was a little wayward and a bit overrated, any pitch that offers him a little, like Lords, he gets stacks of wickets.
As for Freddie, he is the only player in the World who would get into sides for his batting and his bowling alone. This series, I thought his batting was understated due to his antics with the ball, he played some excellent knocks. Take out the Lords game, and his average soars up their along side anyones.
You could say that he is the best seamer in the world at the moment ARGUABLY anyway... so as his batting is as strong as it is, why cant he be the best cricketer on the planet?
I think the English press and Botham are hyping up the English side to get people interested again. Cricket in this country was dying before this series and now it is really challenging football in column inches and interest.
To be honest... England have won the Ashes without their best bowler, Harmison, (sorry Freddie) doing much! His article did mention England's full strength bowling attack being a handful for any side... well if they too good for Aus without Harmison (which they were) then surely they only need to prove themselves in the sub-continent. I think a lot of people forget how good he really is. Like McGrath, who otherwise was a little wayward and a bit overrated, any pitch that offers him a little, like Lords, he gets stacks of wickets.
As for Freddie, he is the only player in the World who would get into sides for his batting and his bowling alone. This series, I thought his batting was understated due to his antics with the ball, he played some excellent knocks. Take out the Lords game, and his average soars up their along side anyones.
You could say that he is the best seamer in the world at the moment ARGUABLY anyway... so as his batting is as strong as it is, why cant he be the best cricketer on the planet?
I think the English press and Botham are hyping up the English side to get people interested again. Cricket in this country was dying before this series and now it is really challenging football in column inches and interest.
Last edited:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Flintoff's not particularly close to the best player in the world I don't think.
He's the second best seamer in the world, in my opinion. He's still got some competition from Shoaib, Pollock, and maybe Bond if he continues to develop etc, but right now I'd rate Flintoff second and Shoaib third.
He has a long way to go with the bat though, and I'd still be picking McGrath, Warne, Murali, Dravid, Kallis, Ponting, Lara and Gilchrist in my team before Flintoff right now. As far as the best all-rounder in the world goes, it's no contest, he's it by a mile.
He's the second best seamer in the world, in my opinion. He's still got some competition from Shoaib, Pollock, and maybe Bond if he continues to develop etc, but right now I'd rate Flintoff second and Shoaib third.
He has a long way to go with the bat though, and I'd still be picking McGrath, Warne, Murali, Dravid, Kallis, Ponting, Lara and Gilchrist in my team before Flintoff right now. As far as the best all-rounder in the world goes, it's no contest, he's it by a mile.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
That's fine, but Botham isn't some random yob on the street celebrating the win and rambling on about how Flintoff is the best player in the world and Australia are going to get smashed next Ashes. He's a professional who is paid money to give his opinions on cricket, and hence he should be taken to task if he says something stupid, just like Thommo was in Australia.SpeedKing said:
Last edited:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Well sure he would. He'd make any side in the world on his bowling alone, includin the World XI. That doesn't make him the best player in the world though, it just makes him very good.SpeedKing said:
Pedro Delgado
International Debutant
Botham, Lawry, Thommo...(there's probably more) ignore them all.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
English always get carried away, dont worry, it will all be forgotten before long, look at the rugby team 
Slow Love™
International Captain
We've been looking for a "Flintoff" or an "Imran" or a "Botham" for around thirty years, now. Australia was obsessed with finding an all-rounder in that vein even when they were on top of the world and beating everybody with ease. Of course, they just show up so rarely, and that's the problem. And IMO Shane Watson ain't gonna be it - but he might profit in terms of selection by the hope that he is.greg said:
Deja moo
International Captain
What do you mean "without Harmison" ? Harmison has had some excellent series' vs the likes of Nz and WI, and average ones against SA and Aus. Whats the argument against the present Harmison being the true Harmison and not the earlier version, which for all we know, could have been one of those bull runs players have in their careers ?simmy said:
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It was only the first Test pitch that suited Harmison, the rest had little seam movement or pace in them. Apart from that he still took massively important wickets at various times, such as the final wicket in the second Test which he got virtually no credit for, Clarke with a slower ball, Langer in the last Test. If he'd have bowled more during the last Test when it was dark he would probably have flattered his series figures. Stick Harmison on a bowler friendly (as opposed to the Lara 400 ones) WI pitch and he'd rip through any team.Deja moo said:
McGrath was fit for one match and effectively won that for Aus!simmy said:
Him being stupid enough to step on a cricket ball whilst playing football pre-second test was the turning point of the Ashes.
IMO, with him in the Aus side, Eng was never going to score enough runs to win a test match.
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Like in the 3rd Test you mean where Australia were saved by the taff getting injured? Or in the 5th Test where Australia would have been significant odds against getting the 300+ in the 4th innings. Where's that picture of sour grapes...social said:
chris.hinton
International Captain
Answer is no we are not ! this is the best England Side that hass ever been and to beat an awesome Aussies side 2-1 and if it was not for Warne and Lee 4-1 is brilliant so stop your moaning and let us have our glory
Our do i sense the Aussies are bad losers
Our do i sense the Aussies are bad losers