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Thread: Myths propogated by media and lapped up by fans.

  1. #1
    SJS
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    Myths propogated by media and lapped up by fans.

    There is so much hype created by media and some it reaches such amazimngly mythical proportions that the mind boggles.

    Mostly one is content to leave it with a 'they are just doing their job which is to sell the media' kind of comment but the slightly more irritating outcome is the way some of these myths are lapped up by the fans.

    One can cite many such myths but here are two from India which arecontemporary and need to be demythified by the decision makers.

    Indian Myth # 1

    This one is a combination and a sequel to earlier myths about Indian batting but I will stick to the more recent version.

    Yuvraj and Kaif along with the established Sehwag are the cricketers India should bank upon in ODI's and the old foggies should be eased out since they are a) not performing, b) are too slow for ODI's, c) are blocking the entry of fresh blood, d) blocking the promotion of people like Yuvraj and Kaif in the batting order where they will do real justice to their skills.

    All these things are not said in the same breath nor at the same time but this is the gist of what is implied. The biggest myth in this long statement is about Yuvaraj and how good he is.

    Here are the facts.

    I have taken pure stats from the last one year (1st September 204 till date) of ODI's to see how the Indian batsmen have performed.

    In the last one year India has played 21 matches of which six are against what I term as weaker sides (Bangladesh, Kenya and a depleted Windies). Of the 15 games against the relatively stronger sides, India won three and lost 12 !! This in a year when they did not play Australia and South Arica.

    What did the much celeberated do ?

    Mohammad Kaif :

    He is the only one to play all 21 matches. Surely a measure of the selectors confidence in him and a sign that he has no sword hanging over his head to cause him tension on this score.

    M...............21
    Runs ........666
    Average ....39.1

    Add 5 fifties and he seems to have repaid the selectors for their confidence. But wait. But for a closer look I eliminated the 6 matches against BD, Kenya and Windies againsy whom he scored nearly half the runs at 104.3, and I was left with a more modest

    M...............15
    Runs ........352
    Average ..23.5

    Yuvraj Singh
    He played all but 1 of the 21 matches and had figures of

    M....................20
    Runs .............509
    Average ....26.8

    Not that hot but wait till we remove the minnows.

    M...............14
    Runs ..........248
    Average ....19.1

    AND WHAT OF THE SENIORS ??

    Virender Sehwag

    M.........20
    R.........511
    Avg....25.6

    Here is a batsman who doesnt believe in slaughtering the minnows and scores even less against them (19.0) then against better opposition (27.7)

    Saurav Ganguly

    M...............17
    Runs ........451
    Average ....28.2

    Against better oposition

    M...............12
    Runs ........ 282
    Average ....20.1

    So now we know why the Indian team has been so gracious in handing over games to the oposition.

    But who has been scoring for India then. Well at the top is the once discarded and now grudgingly accepted (as an important ODI player) .....

    ....Rahul Dravid.

    M...............20
    Runs ........790
    Average ....43.9

    Against better opopsition

    Matches 15
    Runs 585
    Avg 39.0

    No surprise here. But still a thought.

    here is another who performed better with the bat than we may realise.

    Irfan Pathan

    Matches 14
    Runs 216
    Avg 27.0

    Against better opposition.

    Matches 10
    Runs 195
    Avg 24.4

    Not bad for someone at number 8 particularly with whats gone above.

    A tit bit,.
    Kumble, Harbhajan and Agarkar also managed to average in the 20's !!

    For the millions of fans of Yuvraj and his glamourous image :-

    Yuvaraj is said to have suffered because he is made to bat lower down the order. If he batted higher, he woul;d end up with more time to score big runs, have a better average than he has today when he has to throw his bat around and gets out with few overs left.

    Facts :
    Fact 1 - Yuvraj bats slower up the order and recently has definitely been slowing down the innings at the top. He is no Dravid who can play easy at the beginning with the confidence that he will, in all probability bat long enough to make up later.

    Fact 2 - The man who many call the greatest limited overs batsman , Bevan, played 105 innings at number 6 and seven for as strong a side as Australia (imagine how many overs left to play) and scored at an average of 55.8 at this position.

    Fact 3 - Yuvraj's stats are amongst the clearest one has seen as far as batting orders go. Here are his ODI averages :-

    Overall career Avg : 29.8
    .................at # 6 : 36.2
    .................at # 5 : 28.9
    .................at # 4 : 21.5
    .................ar # 3 : 10.0
    ...........as opener : 9.0

    A strong case for sending him higher in the order ??

    Kaif has better credentials for batting higher up (understandable with his temerament)

    Position Inns NO 50s 100s HS Runs Avg
    Opening 1 0 0 0 24 24 24.00
    No. 3 2 0 1 0 64 66 33.00
    No. 4 14 2 3 0 *95 393 32.75
    No. 5 15 3 3 0 80 516 43.00
    No. 6 21 2 3 0 *83 411 21.63
    No. 7 26 8 2 1 *111 596 33.11
    No. 8 2 2 0 0 *31 43

    More myths to follow
    Last edited by SJS; 28-08-2005 at 01:33 AM.

  2. #2
    International Captain cameeel's Avatar
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    Very detailed stats, you obviously feel strongly about this?
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    International 12th Man
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    At least the World XI selectors are immune to the hype.

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    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by cameeel
    Very detailed stats, you obviously feel strongly about this?
    I do. actually. I am really concerned at the dirction in which Indian cricket is going and how we refuse to look at the problems confronting us squarelyin the face and hide behind either past glories or try to build up our glamour boys. Anything to show that we have it in us to be at the top its just bad management, bad selection, bad cpataincy, bad coaching, bad anything except just plane and simple bad cricketers.

    We have not had good batsmen coming up for many years now.

    Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman made their debuts long time ago. we havent had god enough replacements for nearly a decade baring Sehwag at the top of the order. This is beginning to tell.

    We are amazed and so disappointed by our ODI performance particularly after the heady final reachin performance of the last world cup. What we fail to realise is that that was a real phenomenal achievement. Not expected and on the back of an amazing string of innings by a rampant Tendulkar.

    We seem to have this strange notion of our infalible batting and our ability to keep churning out world class batsmen. We are so wrong.

    Lok at the top batsmen in the world over the last decade and you will find Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly and Laxman in most lists. Then ask for a list of the worlds top batsmen who have debuted in the last ten years and see how many Indians figure in that.

    We keep complaining about our bowling being our weakness and how, if we had a world class bowling attack we would be champs. Well that may have ben true five years ago.

    Today, our bowling attack isnt world class but it is not our bowlers who are letting us down, particularly in the one day game, its our batting. But no one wants to say it. Our new string is not performing and it is getting alarming as the older cricketers are nearing the use by date and their performances are beginning to taper off.

    I have used extensive stats only because thats all that seems to count in arguments here otherwise I have felt the same way for a long time without resorting to stats.


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    SJS
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    Secondly, I am very concerned about the indiscipline creeping into the team, particularly from the younger lot.

    Yuvraj and his clearly heard abuses hurled in the direction of his skipper (of the day) and coach may have been hushed up but the entire cricketing fraternity in India is talking about it.

    Harbhajan is another who seems to have become to big for his boots.

    Both these youngsters, so close to the reinstated skiper, are a sign of the trouble brewing in the Indian team. I wanted to show that Yuvraj doesnt have all that mush to rave and rant about , the century against windies attack not withstanding. I wish these youngsters would concentrate on the game rather than behave like the prima donnas the subcontinentmakes out of its glamorous stars.

    We need players with dravid, Sachin and Kumble's commitment and maturity and can do without the brash youth that these guys bring.

    JP Yadav type of cricketer will do more for India than a Yuvraj. Just as Banger did more than his talent would make you believe he was capable of.

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    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    i said once, that it's the media that give the up and coming indian player the big heads.

    Make them out to be much bigger superstars then they actually are. Yuvraj and Pathan are classic examples. Both fit the good lookin hunky young cricketer image, with oodles of talent. The advertising companies jump aboard and make them out to be superstars. This then gets to their heads imo. I've made this argument before

    On the same token, we have the less glamerous types... Kaif and Balaji, who are honest workers, wtih talent, but minus the good looks. Sure, kaif gets a few advertisements and media roles etc. but not enough to make him feel like a super hero to the indian fans.


    If i were coach of the indian team, the first thing i would do, would be to ban these youngsters from media commitments until they are mature enough to handle the stardom.. Tendulkar and Dravid are mature enough and are handling it fine.

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    U19 12th Man Run like Inzy's Avatar
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    The stats about Yuvraj are really suprising since during the innings where he got a hundred in the Indian Oil cup he looked really good. He has the ability as do the players like Ganguly, Sehwag and Kaif so why aren't they performing at levels which are expected of them ?

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    International Captain Swervy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Run like Inzy
    The stats about Yuvraj are really suprising since during the innings where he got a hundred in the Indian Oil cup he looked really good. He has the ability as do the players like Ganguly, Sehwag and Kaif so why aren't they performing at levels which are expected of them ?
    maybe because was is expected of them is maybe a bit too high
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    U19 12th Man Run like Inzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swervy
    maybe because was is expected of them is maybe a bit too high
    I think the Indian fans are right in expecting a better show. After all India did get into the World Cup Final in 2003 and played well with the same team before now.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS
    JP Yadav type of cricketer will do more for India than a Yuvraj. Just as Banger did more than his talent would make you believe he was capable of.
    Exactly what I had highlighted in another thread. They may not be as skilled as anyone in a 'full-strength' (WEAK) Indian side, but they are relevant team players. They play to a task well. The Indian side doesn't need any more stars. They need team players. If there's one good thing about all Central Zone players, they play for the team. Not themselves. Not some powerful entity. And they work hard.

    Except Tendulkar, Dravid and the in-form Nehra, NONE of the Indian ODI regulars count. None of them are important. Some need to be dumped for good. Some need to be dropped (Yuvraj needs counselling and maybe so does Harbhajan) and brought back only after they get their act together. Some need to change the way they play, and the team management needs to tell them. Some need a new role in the team.

    Frankly, the team that has lost all but two major ODI tournaments in five years has stayed more or less the same. Not only do we find that some of those players are just redundant, the recurring defeats may also have weakened them mentally, and they are just not used to winning. It's like that "common Gandhian trait" that Dileep mentioned- not kicking the downtrodden. Getting in a new lot of fresh players who haven't been a part of this extended slump may actually help, particularly if they've played in tournament-winning sides.
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    International 12th Man deeps's Avatar
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    Kumble is a great team man as well, don't forget to include him

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg
    At least the World XI selectors are immune to the hype.
    Which will be why Sehwag was selected ahead of Gayle?
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Which will be why Sehwag was selected ahead of Gayle?
    No. Because he is actually a better player than Gayle.

  14. #14
    International 12th Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Which will be why Sehwag was selected ahead of Gayle?
    You failed to detect the heavy sarcasm this post was laced with.

  15. #15
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Nobody in their right mind can argue for the selection of Sehwag in an ODI side when Gayle is left out.

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