why wasim and waqar were accused of ball tempering?

[luckyeddie]

You will always lose this battle mate,

English players will never be accused because they are "english players"

Get out of town, Bob.

Atherton was absolutely murdered by the British press over the 'dirt in pocket' affair - but I don't expect you to remember that. His every move saw him hounded - he had reporters camped outside his house, hotel room and if he so much put his hand in his pocket on the cricket field he was on the front page. He even had to hide out in Gehan Mendis's flat for a period of time.

 

[Pratters]

He even had to hide out in Gehan Mendis's flat for a period of time.

Gehan Mendis who?

 

[luckyeddie]

Then why is it said there is no conclusive evidence of tampering or othewise then?

Where do you get that idea?

Imran Khan and Sarfraz Nawaz at different times in the past admitted as much.

 

[luckyeddie]

Gehan Mendis who?

Gehan Mendis as in used to play for Lancashire and was one of Athers's best mates.

Gehan Mendis

 

[Pratters]

Gehan Mendis as in used to play for Lancashire and was one of Athers's best mates.

Gehan Mendis

Cheers

 

[Sanz]

Then why is it said there is no conclusive evidence of tampering or othewise then?

Well probably because the video footage alone are not conclusive and consistent enough.

For example in 1992 when Waqar/Wasim were accused of Ball Tampering in an ODI, the MAtch referee not only disagreed with the Umpires (who thought that the ball was tampered) but also opposed their(Umpires') suggestion to change the ball. ICC never released the umpire's/Referee's report or the ball to the press.

In 2000 when Waqar was suspended for ball tampering, there was no report from the on field umpires. Reid saw it on tv and then asked the field umpires to check the ball. The Field umpires didn't find anything wrong with the ball, but despite of that Waqar was suspended.

 

[Pratters]

Well probably because the video footage alone are not conclusive and consistent enough.

For example in 1992 when Waqar/Wasim were accused of Ball Tampering in an ODI, the MAtch referee not only disagreed with the Umpires (who thought that the ball was tampered) but also opposed their(Umpires') suggestion to change the ball. ICC never released the umpire's/Referee's report or the ball to the press.

I really do not think there is conclusive evidence one way or the other.

 

[King_Ponting]

Agreed.
But your guilty by association thing is hogwash.
If that is true, then entire indian team are ball tamperers due to Rahul Dravid's lozenge incident, entire OZ team are dopers due to Warney's doping , etc. etc.
Not to mention, in a court of law, it is rather easy to prove instances of players in the post 60s era tampering with the ball by illegal means- most of the games ( both FC and Tests) in the last 30-35 years have been recorded in tv and you can find solitary instances akin to Dravid's lozenge or Younis's picking the seam incidents for almost every single player.

No, no u cant.

 

[Sanz]

No, no u cant.

Actually you can. It depends how and when you are caught, Hansie Cronje was once caught standing on a cricket ball and many TV commentators agreed that it was indeed ball tampering.

 

[Beleg]

Anil,

My comments upthread were directed towards marc.

 

[Sanz]

Atherton was absolutely murdered by the British press over the 'dirt in pocket' affair - but I don't expect you to remember that. His every move saw him hounded - he had reporters camped outside his house, hotel room and if he so much put his hand in his pocket on the cricket field he was on the front page. He even had to hide out in Gehan Mendis's flat for a period of time.

Getting hounded by media is one thing and being labelled a cheat is another. In 1992 Wasim/Waqar were declared as cheats without any evidence. Arthers is on record in his autobiography that If anyone had labelled him as cheat, he would definately have sued him/her.

 

[luckyeddie]

Getting hounded by media is one thing and being labelled a cheat is another. In 1992 Wasim/Waqar were declared as cheats without any evidence. Arthers is on record in his autobiography that If anyone had labelled him as cheat, he would definately have sued him/her.

I wonder why the report was never released to the press.

Don't read anything into that statement - I genuinely wonder WHY, because as you say, all it left were suspicions.

There's always been a question mark over the John Reid action, and I think it might even have been a case of "well, I think you've got away with it in the past so this time, even though you're only moving your thumb over the ball, I'm going to set an example" - or maybe it isn't.

Why don't we ask Javed Miandad? He's usually got an opinion about everything.

 

[C_C]

No, no u cant.

Yes you can!
When Imran Khan sued Botham, he promptly displayed video evidence of Botham tampering with the ball and successfully WON his case- Botham was never accused of ball tampering.
Fact is, everyone has tampered with the ball at some stage or another- well, almost everyone atleast and the ones caught in the tv in front of a big audience ( Atherton, Dravid, Waqar, etc.)were just plain unlucky ( compared to the other tamperers).
If you seriously believe that there isnt a SINGLE instance of someone like McGrath scratching the ball or picking the seam or whatever, you have not watched enough cricket.
For eg, i remember seeing McGrath scratching the seam in the one-off test in 96 in IND.

FYI, during the 99-2000 series involving PAK and WI in PAK, they had Dessie Haynes as a guest speaker during an innings break ( or lunch or end of play- something like that, i am not sure) and he was asked by Cozier about the two Ws and ball tampering, with mention of the PAK in ENG series in 1992. Dessie plainly said that the English had no clue about reverse swing and what the comms/players didnt understand, they attached a negetive connotation to it. For in 1990, when WI played PAK, he got leg before to an absolute stunner of a delivery from Wasim and he since could hardly believe that a full ball pitched a foot outside offstump could swing in so sharply and strap him leg before, he picked up the ball and stared at it. He found nothing wrong with the ball.

 

[honestbharani]

Trust me, if Jones and Fred or anyone of them were found to have been bottle-topping, they'd be crucified in the British press.

See - Atherton.

I am sure of that. What I meant was that the British media is known for making such allegations wildly at foreign players more readily than on their own players. I am sure if something is proven, the media will be very tough on them. It is the case everywhere, even in India.

 

[Shoaib]

There are two sides of the coin as to why the Pakistanis were accused of ball tampering.

1. Reverse swing was new and it bewildered the English leading to accusations.

2. They really did tamper with the ball. Sidhu has said on tv that it is not unknown among cricketers that tampering is some thing which took place by lot of if not all teams. Pakistanis mastered it and Indians would struggle after the drinks breaks in Sharjah.

There is no proof to the tampering accusations and so its unresolved

No, Wasim and Waqar were accused only because they were from Pakistan.Nowadays,Lee and Mcgrath are chuckers,did anyone complain about them?And why have Flintoff and Harmison not been accused of ball tempering?Obviously,because they r not from Pakistan.And if they r doing reverse swing,its not something great that they r doing,because it was legendary Sarfaraz Nawaz who invented the art of reverse swing and then passed it on to Sir Imran Khan,who taught this art to Wasim and Waqar ,the two legends whom all these m****r f*****s try to copy and still they aren't as great as legendry pair of two 2W's was

 

[Top_Cat]

No, Wasim and Waqar were accused only because they were from Pakistan.Nowadays,Lee and Mcgrath are chuckers,did anyone complain about them?And why have Flintoff and Harmison not been accused of ball tempering?Obviously,because they r not from Pakistan.And if they r doing reverse swing,its not something great that they r doing,because it was legendary Sarfaraz Nawaz who invented the art of reverse swing and then passed it on to Sir Imran Khan,who taught this art to Wasim and Waqar ,the two legends whom all these m****r f*****s try to copy and still they aren't as great as legendry pair of two 2W's was

That's quiet enough of this. You're making unsubstantiated accusations so unless you have proof, keep thy trap firmly SHUT.

 

[C_C]

That's quiet enough of this. You're making unsubstantiated accusations so unless you have proof, keep thy trap firmly SHUT.

Kitty Kitty Kitty!
Go Kitty ! Go Kitty !
Kih-tea Kih-tea Kih-Tea

This is better than jerry Springer

 

[Blaze]

They were both dirty cheats. Great bowlers but they both definetly ball tampered and I think everyone deep down know's that.

 

[C_C]

They were both dirty cheats. Great bowlers but they both definetly ball tampered and I think everyone deep down know's that.

Like i said, EVERY bowler are dirty cheats then. Whats this whole thing about when some asian bloke does it, its dirty cheating chucking twerps but the identical stuff done by the rest aint condemned ?

 

[Shoaib]

So sorry, your guys were most definitely a bunch of filthy cheats, but they were at least pioneers of a new cricketing science.

Just like Mcgrath is the pioneer of chucking but he is not acuused of that because he is an "Australian" but Poor Malik and legendary Muttiah Muralitharan with legal actions are ,because they are Asians and also just to make them confuse so that they cannot bowl devastating bowling spells.