Langeveldt
Soutie
Who's talking about 2003 onwards? Lets just disreguard the fact that he's been a consistant performer with the bat and ball for the best part of seven years before that shall we...marc71178 said:
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The Freddie Flintoff 'Eat Your Words' Thread
- Thread starter Swervy
- Start date
Swervy
International Captain
the point is though that for the last few years he has been a bowling disaster..Kallis the bowler now bares little resemblance to Kallis the bowler of 6 years ago...when he wasnt the batsman he is nowLangeveldt said:
We are talking about allrounders today...whether he performed years ago doesnt really matter..it is irrelevent
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Affecting current status, how?Langeveldt said:
Shane Warne
Banned
Exactly, but these idiots like to do it on am atch by match basis.Langeveldt said:
Doubt we'll hear how Vettori is the best allrounder though.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I don't think that anyone would dispute the 'fact' that Kallis was, a couple of years ago, the best all-rounder (in the conventional sense) in the world.Langeveldt said:
I don't think that anyone could reasonably dispute the 'fact' that he isn't any more, and it's unlikely that he ever will be again. His bowling has gone over the hills and far away, and I don't think it's coming back. His career average doesn't tell me that, but watching him, coupled with his recent seasonal average, surely does.
King_Ponting
International Regular
Form is current, Kallis is no longer the great allrounder he used to be. One could say lets look at steve waugh...... damn he must have been an allrounder as well, when in his early days he was in the latter stages of his career he most definantly was not. That trend is also seen in kallis's careerShane Warne said:
Swervy
International Captain
How relevent is a players performance half a decade ago to how he performs now.Shane Warne said:
Was Botham the same bowler at the end of his career as he was at the start..was he buggery???
Was Viv Richards as good a batsman at the end of his career as he was in the late 70's...nope
Things change with players...have a look at Gillespie...how does his performances of 5 years ago affect his listless performances of now....in absolutely no way...and thats why we can say that at the moment Dizzy isnt close to being one of the best pace bowlers in the world, when not so long ago he was in my mind the second best after McGrath.
Vettori???? well I would guess that pretty much every international bowler in the world would back themselves vs Vettori with the bat than with Flintoff!!
Vettori is obviously improving with the bat, but i am sure he would be the first to admit he isnt a batsman in Flintoffs class...good bowler though, but as good a threat to other batsmen as Flintoff..nah.
Try again SW
tooextracool
International Coach
hes had consistent injuries, and hes never been even a capable bowler since.Craig said:
exactly, and to put him down as the best all rounder in the world is just plain wrong. hes never been the best all rounder in the world-cairns was always one step ahead, but even at the best of bowling times, his bowling was just acceptable, while his batting was good. now his batting is brilliant and his bowling is non existant.Craig said:
tooextracool
International Coach
and kallis living off past glories against b'desh and zimbabwe doesnt change anything.Langeveldt said:
to say that kallis is the best all rounder in the world, when he can barely take a wicket these days is gibberish. and as has been said several times in the past, flintoffs record before 2003 proves nothing, other than the fact that he was rubbish then.
tooextracool
International Coach
then why not talk about botham and imran too then?Langeveldt said:
when you look at the best all rounders in the world, you look at the ones who are currently all rounders, not ones that used to be.
Pedro Delgado
International Debutant
Originally Posted by Langeveldt
Who's talking about 2003 onwards? Lets just disreguard the fact that he's been a consistant performer with the bat and ball for the best part of seven years before that shall we...
Come on old chap, he doesn't enjoy bowling, he only does it when they're up sh1t creek, and he wants to play purely as a batsman (in which regard I rate him highly, and he'd make a world 11 IMO). Fred is cul-de-sacs ahead as a genuine all-rounder.
Take the SA tinted specs off man.
Who's talking about 2003 onwards? Lets just disreguard the fact that he's been a consistant performer with the bat and ball for the best part of seven years before that shall we...
Come on old chap, he doesn't enjoy bowling, he only does it when they're up sh1t creek, and he wants to play purely as a batsman (in which regard I rate him highly, and he'd make a world 11 IMO). Fred is cul-de-sacs ahead as a genuine all-rounder.
Take the SA tinted specs off man.
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
is there another genuine all-rounder(i mean the conventional batting/bowling all-rounder, not the new type of 'keeping/batting one) in the world apart from flintoff? chris cairns is no longer the player he was, kallis doesn't bowl so much any more, all the others who are given the tag are either bits-and-pieces players or predominant in one discipline and just barely acceptable in the other....