***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[Neil Pickup]

Was it obviously intentional?

The ramp - he leant back a foot and a half, stuck his bat across and forced it up and over the keeper's head... unmistakeably intentional.

 

[aussie]

neil why dont you go to bed

 

[badgerhair]

My old Latin dictionary translates petitio principi as "begging the chief point" or "begging the question", so I'm afraid you've lost me! Maybe you can elucidate?

An event cannot beg a question. Only an argument can beg one.

Literally it means that the argument relies on an appeal to the origin or principle, or assumes that something is true even though most people would have thought that it was the point actually at issue.

"Jones is now the wrong person to open and Strauss is the right one"

"Why?"

"Because Strauss is now the right person to open and Jones is the wrong one" is a question-begging answer because it simply assumes the truth of the proposition as being proof of its truth.

"Because the idea of turning Jones into a Gilchiristian pinch-hitter isn't working and in English conditions at least we now think a proper opener would be a better idea" does not require you to accept something you may not yet agree with before you can accept it
as a logical answer, so it does not beg the question.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Mister Wright]

I think we all should be grateful that we got to see as much as the match as we could. Everyone bagging Bangladesh should have a look at the fighting spirit the lower order showed with the bat, admittadely England took the foot of the pedal, but even still, they did a great job. Their bowlers are obviously not up to international level, and their captain didn't really help them out. So, it wasn't all 'pathetic'.

 

[PY]

He played two 'ramps' in the same over, one went slightly offside, one slightly legside

That leg-side one I couldn't decide if it was intentional to go on-side because his bat was definitely angled down to a very fine fine leg.

Not the first time he's used it either, he used it against Shoaib 2 summers ago to great effect, in fact I'm fairly certain he got a couple of sixes from it and almost walloped a photographer in the process. Almost got out a few times using it today though, he ended up trying to play it 4 times in one over IIRC which wasn't IMO clever cricket.

I started watching at 60/0 and watched some pedestrian cricket from Bangladesh, especially the bowlers. The six Strauss hit seemed little more than a distasteful swat at a medium paced bouncer right on his hip, unbelievable. Not much of a workout in terms of batting but entertaining all the same. Bring on the Aussies on Sunday.

 

[social]

Last night was the first time that Ive had an extended look at the Bangladeshis on their current tour (having previously been confined to "highlight" packages).

The most disturbing facet of their game was the obvious deterioration in batting techniques since their tour of Australia. At that time, they at least looked capable.

However, on last night's performance, there is not one player in that line-up that would be a consistent run-scorer in first-class cricket and I do not think that it is too harsh to say that Jason Gillespie is at least the equal of most of their top order.

Whilst I encourage their participation in international cricket, any performances against them have to be taken with a grain of salt. As a case in point, I cannot imagine that the English hierarchy would be terribly impressed with the performance of Steve Harmison despite his figures of 4 - 39.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

However, on last night's performance, there is not one player in that line-up that would be a consistent run-scorer in first-class cricket and I do not think that it is too harsh to say that Jason Gillespie is at least the equal of most of their top order.

Habibul Bashar, Javed Omar and Aftab Ahmed at least are significantly better than Gillespie. And come on... Iqbal and Ashraful are just kids and both have test centuries. They're much better than tail enders.

As far as consistently scoring in FC cricket, well I'm inclined to agree, with only the first three I mentioned impressing on me at all that they were decent. Bashar averages in the 30s in test cricket and isn't too hopeless even if he does chuck his wicket away a lot, so I think he could make a few county sides easily enough. Aftab based on last night's performance certianly would too - that was undoubtedly an international class innings.

 

[badgerhair]

Habibul Bashar, Javed Omar and Aftab Ahmed at least are significantly better than Gillespie. And come on... Iqbal and Ashraful are just kids and both have test centuries. They're much better than tail enders.

As far as consistently scoring in FC cricket, well I'm inclined to agree, with only the first three I mentioned impressing on me at all that they were decent. Bashar averages in the 30s in test cricket and isn't too hopeless even if he does chuck his wicket away a lot, so I think he could make a few county sides easily enough. Aftab based on last night's performance certianly would too - that was undoubtedly an international class innings.

On the evidence I've seen, which is the Tests as well as this one-dayer, Bashar would be regarded as a useful asset by most counties or States, Javed Belim is a plodder who is wholly unsuited to one-day cricket and would get into sides in need of a boring opener to do some crease occupation, and Aftab looks like a very interesting prospect who would be having a close eye kept on him over the next couple of domestic seasons in England or Australia.

Mortaza looks like a decent bowler who might aspire to international class, while Rafique and Mashud stand the comparison with others in real Test sides. I can't see why Courtney Browne or Dinesh Karthik would be picked ahead of Mashud, and I doubt anyone would complain very much if he replaced either Geraint Jones or Mark Boucher since neither of them produce as much with the bat as they're claimed to be able to. You'd have to be mad to want to retain Nicky Boje if you had Rafique available, WI could certainly do with a decent spinner, and I'd rather have him than Batty as our backup.

The rest are barely out of the U-19s, if they even are, and would be getting some experience in county or State second XIs.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

On the evidence I've seen, which is the Tests as well as this one-dayer, Bashar would be regarded as a useful asset by most counties or States, Javed Belim is a plodder who is wholly unsuited to one-day cricket and would get into sides in need of a boring opener to do some crease occupation, and Aftab looks like a very interesting prospect who would be having a close eye kept on him over the next couple of domestic seasons in England or Australia.

Mortaza looks like a decent bowler who might aspire to international class, while Rafique and Mashud stand the comparison with others in real Test sides. I can't see why Courtney Browne or Dinesh Karthik would be picked ahead of Mashud, and I doubt anyone would complain very much if he replaced either Geraint Jones or Mark Boucher since neither of them produce as much with the bat as they're claimed to be able to. You'd have to be mad to want to retain Nicky Boje if you had Rafique available, WI could certainly do with a decent spinner, and I'd rather have him than Batty as our backup.

The rest are barely out of the U-19s, if they even are, and would be getting some experience in county or State second XIs.

Cheers,

Mike

Agreed on each point really. The majority of Bangladesh's top order have notable technical flaws, but given how young most of them are they can certainly be worked out of their game, and they are definately on the improve.

 

[Arjun]

All over without losing a wicket, Marcus getting a ton in his hundreth ODI. Too easy really, can the Bengalis take owt from these maulings I wonder.

Bangladesh were thrashed by an East Zone side in this season's Duleep Trophy, which was effectively a Bengal XI, and may be closer to that if MS Dhoni moves over to that state.

 

[Arjun]

England's fielding was sub-par, and they cannot afford to continue this way against the Aussies. Do you think Jon Lewis should play the next match or would you choose Simon Jones? Or maybe both, in place of one specialist batsman.

 

[Mister Wright]

Brett Lee to miss early matches

Lee to miss opening one-day matches

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's a very interesting turn of events. Personally, I was thinking that The Ashes would be the acid test of Lee, I did foresee him getting a go in the Tests, but now I think chances are he'll bowl rubbish - come back too early from the injury being so keen to impress for a Test match spot.

 

[Mister Wright]

It's a very interesting turn of events. Personally, I was thinking that The Ashes would be the acid test of Lee, I did foresee him getting a go in the Tests, but now I think chances are he'll bowl rubbish - come back too early from the injury being so keen to impress for a Test match spot.

He'll fall behind for sure. It depends how long he is out for if it is a week - I can't see him losing his rythum, more than that, who knows? He hasn't been bowling that well on tour anyway and his last Ashes series he averaged close to 50 with the ball anyway. Not a great case for selection.

 

[PY]

England's fielding was sub-par, and they cannot afford to continue this way against the Aussies. Do you think Jon Lewis should play the next match or would you choose Simon Jones? Or maybe both, in place of one specialist batsman.

I think both of them will play against the Aussie if Jones is fit enough and one of the batsman will drop out which I reckon will almost certainly be Solanki.

Although he's the obvious choice, I don't like dropping him very much because of his exceptional abilities in the field. Granted that's no reason to pick someone over any of the other choices but I still don't like it.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

I have to say, if Harmison bowls some of that short rubbish against Australia, he will get smashed.

Was far more impressed with Lewis.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Bangladesh were thrashed by an East Zone side in this season's Duleep Trophy, which was effectively a Bengal XI, and may be closer to that if MS Dhoni moves over to that state.

I must admit my Bangladesh history leaves a lot to be desired. I apologise, tik hai sahib?


As long as they are profiting from these games I have no problem, I just cringe a little every time Marcus bullies yet another ton. Odd for an Englishman to say this maybe.
From a selfish point of view though, I'd rather be facing NZ, SL et al, which would be more of a battle and stand us in better stead against you-know-who.

Anywho bring on the Tests, this is all a preamble really.

 

[twctopcat]

I have to say, if Harmison bowls some of that short rubbish against Australia, he will get smashed.

Was far more impressed with Lewis.

Definitely. Sky showed his bowling accuracy which was pretty much all off stump back of a length, pollockesque. Wish harmison would take a leaf out of his book soon.

 

[Pedro Delgado]

Jones having scan. Bugger. Just when he was looking something like too. Fingers crossed he'll be right for the Tests.

 

[PY]

He looked to be walking fine on it when he brought drinks out during the England innings so I was hoping it would be a precautionary tactic to save him for Sunday, not good news.

Feel very sorry for him because he really has had no luck whatsoever and he was just looking like he was just getting back in the zone and I was even considering opening up with him after the Hampshire game and having Harmison as first change (in Tests obviously).