Matty Hayden is brilliant on seaming wickets !!

[Richard]

I've heard people involved with the state side bemoan that when both Ian Harvey and Shane Warne are playing for Victoria, it's very hard to win when there's only 9 players actually trying...

Alternatively, it might go to show that Warne at Test level gets a lot of his wickets through aura and reputation as opposed to the actual craft of bowling, as opposed to state level stuff where people just say "To hell, lets attack him"?

Not saying its either, but just throwing up suggestions.

Hmm, on the evidence I've seen of Warne at Test-level I'd say the wickets-through-aura doesn't happen that much - of course it does of times, as it does with most good bowlers.
And his Victoria economy-rate of 2.8-an-over doesn't suggest he's exactly been taken to the cleaners, while not being as economical as he tends to in Tests, just that he hasn't offered as much penetration.
And I've never heard anyone accuse Harvey of not trying for Vics - hardly like he's got another level to excel at!

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

In short it's 2 centuries, 1 half and 3 failures.
For all we know the 103 & DNB match might've been a flat pitch and the 116 one might've flattened-out (what were intermening scores?)
It's not completely conclusive either way.
I've still got grounds on which to say his failures in Test-cricket have some meaning.

Who's Saker?
Inness, brilliant as he was before 2004\05, has never shown me an extraordinary ability to bowl round-the-wicket and swing it away from right-handers. Maybe people who've seen more of him might be able to elaborate.
Hughes's domestic record isn't exactly flash, only averages 27.56 at The 'Gabba.
Wonder about his record against Reiffel too.

Saker was a decent quick for Victoria for a few years. Not of international standard probably, but he led their attack quite well and could certainly swing it. Hughes was an accomplished test class bowler, and was more than capable of exploiting seaming conditions. His record against Reiffel from what I've seen was pretty solid as well.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Who's Saker?

Handy state level bowler, probably best described as medium fast who bent the ball pretty well. Could be best described as a combination of Fleming's swing and Reiffel's hitting the deck hard philosophies, just a few yards slower and not quite as good. Very serviceable state player though.

Inness, brilliant as he was before 2004\05, has never shown me an extraordinary ability to bowl round-the-wicket and swing it away from right-handers

Although he never did it from Left Arm Around, there were times in Inness' career where the outswinger to the right hander was very prevalent in his bowling, and is something that he's used for a long time, sometimes even used as a stock ball and the inswinger as a suprise after lulling the batsman into a dry period of few shots as the ball slew across him.

I think he's been quoted as saying that he prefers swinging the ball away from either handed batsmen. But generally, being renowned as a guy who does a lot of homework on batsman, he generally chooses which way to move it from a batsman to batsman case.

Question of relevance can be raised as to whether he could have exploited the Hayden weakness from Left Arm Over though.

 

[vic_orthdox]

And I've never heard anyone accuse Harvey of not trying for Vics - hardly like he's got another level to excel at!

He generally just has that rather disinterested air about him, and its not of the Mark Waugh-it looks like he isn't trying so he mustn't be - type either. Ever noticed how he comes out and bowls a spell that is a hell of a lot quicker than you've seen him bowl in a long time? And how each time his spot comes under question in Victoria, he manages to come up with a 5 for or a hundred, and then quickly slips back into mediocrity. And when playing for more cash (chances are performance tied) in England he performs a lot better? Just a lot of things pointing in the same direction, let along stories that you hear...

This sort of thing, it should be noted, has been much more prominent after he started playing ODI's for Australia.

 

[Richard]

Although he never did it from Left Arm Around, there were times in Inness' career where the outswinger to the right hander was very prevalent in his bowling, and is something that he's used for a long time, sometimes even used as a stock ball and the inswinger as a suprise after lulling the batsman into a dry period of few shots as the ball slew across him.

I think he's been quoted as saying that he prefers swinging the ball away from either handed batsmen. But generally, being renowned as a guy who does a lot of homework on batsman, he generally chooses which way to move it from a batsman to batsman case.

Question of relevance can be raised as to whether he could have exploited the Hayden weakness from Left Arm Over though.

I've always liked Inness - probably like him even more now.
How often do you see batsmen having troubles with the inswinger by, for instance, a right-armer bowling at a right-hander from over-the-wicket; or a right-armer bowling at a left-hander from around-the-wicket?
Not very often, which is why bowlers whose stock-ball is the inswinger aren't very common.
Hayden's weakness, as with most, is with the ball swinging back into him, not coming straight in.

 

[Richard]

He generally just has that rather disinterested air about him, and its not of the Mark Waugh-it looks like he isn't trying so he mustn't be - type either. Ever noticed how he comes out and bowls a spell that is a hell of a lot quicker than you've seen him bowl in a long time? And how each time his spot comes under question in Victoria, he manages to come up with a 5 for or a hundred, and then quickly slips back into mediocrity. And when playing for more cash (chances are performance tied) in England he performs a lot better? Just a lot of things pointing in the same direction, let along stories that you hear...

This sort of thing, it should be noted, has been much more prominent after he started playing ODI's for Australia.

Interesting... I've never seen him play an ING\MM Cup game, so I'm not placed to notice it. I've just always noticed his List-A OD record is excellent in both England and Australia (even if the economy-rate has been rising alarmingly in the last 2 seasons), and I've never looked at his First-Class record broken down between the two (guess where I'm off to in a sec...)
As for have I ever noticed him bowl a spell a lot quicker than I've seen in a long time... I've only seen him bowl in 1 First-Class match, so no. The closest thing I've seen to a stock-ball for him is about 80mph.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I've always liked Inness - probably like him even more now.

Problem is that a number of things have conspired for him to bowl rather poorly over the last year and a half, ever since he ran through a full strength Indian batting line up. Inconsistent selection policies, playing on a flatter wicket than the MCG while it's being revamped (Junction Oval) and actually not bowling as well as he once was has meant he found himself on the periphery in Victoria. Hopefully he can thrive in Western Australia.

 

[Richard]

He's moved to WA, then, has he?

 

[vic_orthdox]

He's moved to WA, then, has he?

Most definently.

 

[Richard]

So an opening partnership of Inness and Harwood is history.
Oh, well, if it helps Matt on his way, I suppose.

 

[vic_orthdox]

So an opening partnership of Inness and Harwood is history.
Oh, well, if it helps Matt on his way, I suppose.

Are you a fan of Harwood?

I've got to say, the jury is still out on him for me..and by the looks of it the selectors too.

 

[Richard]

Well I've seen him bowl a mere once (compared to Inness 6 or 7 times).
I did like the look of that, but as we all know you don't judge a player on a single game.

 

[social]

Harwood is a very good bowler but is injury-prone.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Harwood is a very good bowler but is injury-prone.

So true on the injury front. Things were disguised a little though this year - he barely took a wicket with the new ball in Pura Cup this year, and I reckon he'd a large percentage of his wickets would be tailenders. He is very good at getting reverse though, mind you.

 

[Richard]

That's why I always liked the thought of Inness and Harwood in the same team - both multi-dimensional bowlers, and backed-up by Lewis and Harvey it made a nice rounded attack.
Shame Moss, McDonald and Wise muddied the waters.