A prediction !!

[FaaipDeOiad]

The problem is, some of your compatriots think they can just list they're names and say "they're better than any other Test reserves anywhere, we won't have a problem when we need to call on them"

Listing names doesn't mean anything, but it's quite clear that players like Tait or Lee would make other test sides in the world based on how well they have bowled in FC cricket and ODIs respectively. Just like say Tremlett, if he continues his recent form for a season or two, would be certain to get a run just about anywhere in the world, excluding Australia and potentially England, depending on how well their current crop does in the near future.

 

[King_Ponting]

The problem is, some of your compatriots think they can just list they're names and say "they're better than any other Test reserves anywhere, we won't have a problem when we need to call on them"

Because in particular the australian test reserve batsman have done sooooooo much better in England than they have done in Australia indicating that the domestic compettion in England is weaker than Australia's. For example Micheal Hussey's county record is extraordinary.

 

[marc71178]

For every Hussey there's a Clarke.

 

[vic_orthdox]

For every Hussey there's a Clarke.

Actually, there's only two Hussey's, while there are three Clarke's (albeit one without an "e") in Australian domestic cricket

 

[marc71178]

In which case 2 of each does make my original comment correct

 

[vic_orthdox]

In which case 2 of each does make my original comment correct

I realised that just after I posted it

 

[tooextracool]

For every Hussey there's a Clarke.

and the odd bichel, tait and macgill.

 

[badgerhair]

Because in particular the australian test reserve batsman have done sooooooo much better in England than they have done in Australia indicating that the domestic compettion in England is weaker than Australia's. For example Micheal Hussey's county record is extraordinary.

Interestingly, Hussey is more the exception than the rule these days, which you couldn't have said five or ten years ago. He actually had an uncharacteristically poor county season in 2004, so he wasn't one of only three players who did better in county cricket in 2004 (based purely on averages) than they did in Pura Cup cricket in 2004-05 - one being Martin Love, who had a freak average of about 390 from once out. But Hussey's overall record is indeed considerably better in England than it is when he plays his home games at the WACA, suggesting that he's simply much better adapted to playing on soft English wickets rather than hard Australian ones, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the overall strength of the competitions and everything to do with his technique, which makes him very similar to Tom Moody, another sandgroper who found English wickets more conducive.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[badgerhair]

Listing names doesn't mean anything, but it's quite clear that players like Tait or Lee would make other test sides in the world based on how well they have bowled in FC cricket and ODIs respectively. Just like say Tremlett, if he continues his recent form for a season or two, would be certain to get a run just about anywhere in the world, excluding Australia and potentially England, depending on how well their current crop does in the near future.

I'm pleased you didn't use the "would walk into any other side in the world" formulation which tends to put my back up a lot, but implicitly acknowledged the possibility of failure by the phrase "get a run".

At least fifty percent of first-class successes fail to make it in Test cricket. Some can't cope mentally, others' techniques aren't up to it.

Martin Saggers had a fantastic f-c record from 2000 onwards, eventually made the Test side,. had a bit of a run and was seen to be at best adequate at Test level, and even then there's some reasonable doubt about whether he's really up to it.

I'd suggest that you need more than figures. I notice that Liam Plunkett has been returning excellent figures for Durham this season, but nobody's yet mentioning him as an England prospect, whereas they are with Tremlett, and some of the forward-looking types are beginning to note Bresnan's figures as well.

England now have Pietersen and will soon have Joyce who aren't in the Test team but who have (or will have) a lot of people saying that they really ought to be playing for England. Not all the others who have similar averages and the like, but those two - because people who've seen them think they really are a bit special. OK, so there's Key as well, but I'm not convinced that he's special - although that puts me in opposition to Graham Thorpe, who is convinced.

There are obviously a lot of people who think Brett Lee's special, and even if I don't agree with them, the sheer number of them says quite a bit about him.

What I don't know is whether there are many people who think Tait is special. His name comes up quite a bit these days, but I don't get much buzz beyond "he's got a fantastic average", and that's not awfully convincing given people like Saggers, who also didn't have much going for him beyond impressive figures.

It's obviously healthy that there are a number of players with impressive f-c figures, because those tend to be a reasonable guarantee of vaguely useful Test figures, but I'd be more impressed with claims of not being worried about reserve strength if there were more clamour about it being a disgrace that so-and-so wasn't in the squad than mild satisfaction that someone has got The Nod.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[superkingdave]

TBF Liam Plunkett's figures aren't fantastic, 23 wickets @27.69 when you consider Davies has 24@17.04 and Paul Collingwood has 15@24.73, Harmison took 27@14.51 and Lewis 14@18.78. When you look at it in context with the rest of the Durham attack, his figures are decent but nothing special

 

[aussie]

6 years of it happening suggests it can easily continue.

well maybe, but i dont want to predict anything so lets leave at that

 

[aussie]

No, the reserves are unproven, and no repeated listing of their names saying "they're all great" will change that.

yes they are back up so they are unproven

 

[marc71178]

and the odd bichel, tait and macgill.

I was only talking about batsmen, or I would've added those and also GB Hogg.

 

[aussie]

The problem is, some of your compatriots think they can just list they're names and say "they're better than any other Test reserves anywhere, we won't have a problem when we need to call on them"

well based on the way blokes like Lee, Tait, MaCGill, Bracken have bowled in FC cricket & in Lee's case ODI cricket, they could make most other international teams in the world.

 

[marc71178]

Except they've then gone and played in Tests and not done well.

 

[mofo123]

pakistan line up:
butt/hameed/afridi
malik
younis khan
inzi
yousuf youhana
razzaq
akmal
akhtar/gul/sami
saqlain
kanera

england line up:
tresco
strauss
vaughn
thorpe
bell/peitersen
flintoff
g jones
giles(king of spain)
hoggard
harmison
s jones

take ur pick, my moneys on pakistan...kaneria and saqlain make a mouth watering spin line up...akhtar hopefully a changed man...or gul if hes fit...afridi gets the nod ahead of hameed and butt on recent form but where does he bat? kamal will probably get the nod ahead of sum1 too...

england bowling attck is good...but and injury to 1 of them then trouble...peitersen and bell unproven agaisnt quality bowling(in test standard...no jokes!!!)
should b a fun series...1-1 or 2-1 to pakistan
ODIs no brainer pakistan

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

What I don't know is whether there are many people who think Tait is special. His name comes up quite a bit these days, but I don't get much buzz beyond "he's got a fantastic average", and that's not awfully convincing given people like Saggers, who also didn't have much going for him beyond impressive figures.

I think one of the reasons you get a more reserved reaction about Tait than you might about another bowler with his figures, is that he's an extremely unusual bowler, and it's hard to have too much faith in him. He has an absolutely atrocious action, where he collapses on his front foot in delivery and slings it in a fashion that, at first glance, makes it look like he would spray it all over the place. However, since his shocking run in county cricket, he has fixed his no-ball troubles and sprays it around a lot less. From what I've seen of him (limited to one game live and a bunch of OD games on tv, plus radio and so on), he bowls as many wicket balls as any bowler I have ever seem. He has an absolutely sublime yorker, moves the ball both in the air and off the seam at will on what is usually a dead flat wicket at Adelaide, and has an unorthodox, skiddy bouncer which batsmen seem to struggle to deal with. He's also extremely sharp. I haven't seem him clocked, but I'd expect he would be in the mid to high 140s (low 90s). His faults are obvious as well, similar to Brett Lee early in his career he has an extremely low point of delivery that would likely take the slips out of the equation a bit, at least compared to more upright bowlers, and he is probably prone to injury because of his action. He also can spray it around a bit like most express pace bowlers, although he hasn't done so recently.

 

[King_Ponting]

Tatis got an action sorta like malinga. and he is very very sharp. When i saw him play against zimbabwe one of their batsman edged him for 6...

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Malinga is way more round-arm though. Malinga literally delivers the ball from in front of the stumps - his release point was in front of the umpire's tie in New Zealand. Tait releases the ball from a normal sort of point close to off stump, just does so with a low, slinging action. Malinga is probably even more unorthodox, and I think is likely to benefit from such if he remains injury free. I'm not sure Tait will benefit much from being unorthodox in terms of batsmen not being able to pick him, but he's still a supremely talented bowler and if he bowls like he has recently in international cricket I think he'll do well.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I remember seeing him when I was in Adelaide take his 8/43 against Tasmania. It was one of the most unbelievable spells of One Day bowling I've seen.

Probably encapsulates why "some people" won't like him. He's bowled extremely well but still gone at over 4 an over.