***Official Ashes Thread***

[krishneelz]

time for an official thread

hayden > strauss
langer < tresko
ponting > vaughn
marto < pietersen
hussey > collingwood
clarke < freddy
gilli > jones
lee > hoggard
warne > giles
kaspa < harmison
pegion > jones

batting pretty even but aussies bowling attack will rip through the english. Remember pegion was injured and not fully recovered when the aussies lost their matches

 

[andyc]

time for an official thread

hayden > strauss
langer < tresko
ponting > vaughn
marto < pietersen
hussey > collingwood
clarke < freddy
gilli > jones
lee > hoggard
warne > giles
kaspa < harmison
pegion > jones

batting pretty even but aussies bowling attack will rip through the english. Remember pegion was injured and not fully recovered when the aussies lost their matches

Not too sure about that. Pretty equal for mine.

 

[Scaly piscine]

batting pretty even but aussies bowling attack will rip through the english. Remember pegion was injured and not fully recovered when the aussies lost their matches

Of course, I mean it wasn't like it was the bowling that ripped the Aussies apart in 2005 was it...

Quite a feat to misspell pigeon so badly as well.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

time for an official thread

hayden > strauss
langer < tresko
ponting > vaughn
marto < pietersen
hussey > collingwood
clarke < freddy
gilli > jones
lee > hoggard
warne > giles
kaspa < harmison
pegion > jones

batting pretty even but aussies bowling attack will rip through the english. Remember pegion was injured and not fully recovered when the aussies lost their matches

Langer is better than Trescothick, and Hoggard is better than Lee. I'd say calling Pietersen better than Martyn is a bit off as well, though Martyn has to prove himself again after his return to the side.

 

[howardj]

Personally, I think injuries will play an enormous role in this Ashes Series. The five Test Matches are played in six and a half weeks. Such a contracted schedule will place an enormous strain on older chaps, such as McGrath and Warne. Likewise, England will have to be careful not to overbowl Flintoff. More broadly (and disconcertingly for England) touring teams seem to suffer an inordinate number of injuries out here in Australia. I think the firmer pitches/grounds have a role to play in that. In any case, fitness and injury management are going to be just as important as outswingers and cover drives next summer.

 

[luckyeddie]

Pegion = lots of pigeons?

 

[Richard]

Personally, I think injuries will play an enormous role in this Ashes Series. The five Test Matches are played in six and a half weeks. Such a contracted schedule will place an enormous strain on older chaps, such as McGrath and Warne. Likewise, England will have to be careful not to overbowl Flintoff. More broadly (and disconcertingly for England) touring teams seem to suffer an inordinate number of injuries out here in Australia. I think the firmer pitches/grounds have a role to play in that. In any case, fitness and injury management are going to be just as important as outswingers and cover drives next summer.

England just generally suffer a lot of injuries, it's not just in Australia.
It'd be interesting to consider 2002\03 and 1994\95, two of the most absurdly injury-ravaged tours ever - how many were caused by the pitches?
I can do 2002\03...
Jones, Vaughan, Flintoff and Trescothick all came into the tour with injuries - Gough returned home without playing a game.
Jones then suffered an injury which had more to do with soft outfields than hard pitches.
Silverwood went over on his ankle.
Tudor got hit above the eye by a Bouncer, which is something that can happen at The WACA.
Giles was hit in the nets during a tiny period where he was wearing no armguard.
White twanged an intercostal, which he's done more than once.
Vaughan re-did his knee, as well as being hit on the shoulder - Vaughan, as is now becoming more and more obvious, has always had a weakness in his knees.
Stewart, I can't actually remember why he missed the MCG Test, IIRR it was a hand injury.
Snape got hit on the finger by a Lee ball - 1st ball of the tour, in fact.
Harmison experienced sore shins early on, though it didn't stop him playing in any games.
Caddick had back-trouble during the Second Test and missed the Third.
Very, very few went through the entire tour without any problems.
Even in 1998\99 things weren't trouble-free...
Crawley was beaten-up in Cairns.
Stewart tweaked his back in the pipe-opener, and though it did not recur he missed the first proper game of the tour.
Atherton's back ruined his tour, he himself has since said he should never have gone on the thing ITFP.
Butcher got hit above the eye - again at The WACA - reinforcing the fact that things like that happen in WA.
Thorpe's back forced him home after the First Test.
Only briefly (on 3 or 4 short occasions) in the last 8 years have England been free of injuries.

 

[Richard]

time for an official thread

hayden > strauss
langer < tresko
ponting > vaughn
marto < pietersen
hussey > collingwood
clarke < freddy
gilli > jones
lee > hoggard
warne > giles
kaspa < harmison
pegion > jones

batting pretty even but aussies bowling attack will rip through the english. Remember pegion was injured and not fully recovered when the aussies lost their matches

To suggest Lee is better than Hoggard and that either McGrath or Kasprowicz are better than Jones is frankly stupid.
Yes, all 3 are better than Harmison but that says little or nothing.
With any luck Bell, not Collingwood, will line-up - I simply can't see Collingwood scoring runs against a full-strength Australia, even with dropped catches.

 

[benchmark00]

To suggest Lee is better than Hoggard and that either McGrath or Kasprowicz are better than Jones is frankly stupid.
Yes, all 3 are better than Harmison but that says little or nothing.
With any luck Bell, not Collingwood, will line-up - I simply can't see Collingwood scoring runs against a full-strength Australia, even with dropped catches.

What? Mcgrath is better than jones...

 

[Richard]

Jones bowled better than McGrath last summer.
Obviously McGrath has had the better career but if things carry-on the way they're currently going I'd expect Jones to be a better bowler than McGrath during The Ashes 2006\07.

 

[benchmark00]

Jones bowled better than McGrath last summer.
Obviously McGrath has had the better career but if things carry-on the way they're currently going I'd expect Jones to be a better bowler than McGrath during The Ashes 2006\07.

Jones didn't really bowl better than McGrath on an even playing field. Mcgrath had one game where he was 100% fit, and he bowled better than Jones.

 

[Richard]

Obviously - McGrath bowled stupendously at Lord's and Jones (and indeed the whole England attack, and Gillespie too) bowled the biggest heap of crap I've seen for a long, long time.
Fact is, though, that (even if his lack of fitness was the main reason) Jones bowled better in the middle 3 games than McGrath did in his other 2.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Jones didn't really bowl better than McGrath on an even playing field. Mcgrath had one game where he was 100% fit, and he bowled better than Jones.

They're completely different pace bowlers and not really comparable. In some situations you'd rather have Jones, in others McGrath.

 

[benchmark00]

Obviously - McGrath bowled stupendously at Lord's and Jones (and indeed the whole England attack, and Gillespie too) bowled the biggest heap of crap I've seen for a long, long time.
Fact is, though, that (even if his lack of fitness was the main reason) Jones bowled better in the middle 3 games than McGrath did in his other 2.

That's because of injury though, i agree Jones bowled well and is a good bowler, but how can you possibly say that saying Mcgrath is better that Jones is "stupid"? If anything it's the other way around.

You're kidding yourself if you say Jones is better than McGrath.

 

[benchmark00]

They're completely different pace bowlers and not really comparable. In some situations you'd rather have Jones, in others McGrath.

No, in all situations I'd prefer McGrath....

 

[Scaly piscine]

No, in all situations I'd prefer McGrath....

Only a complete fruitcake would take McGrath over Jones on the type of pitches later in the last Ashes series. Jones was taking 5-fers in no time whilst most other bowlers were struggling just to keep it tight without offering a wicket-taking threat - Warne and Flintoff being the other exceptions.

 

[aussie]

They're completely different pace bowlers and not really comparable. In some situations you'd rather have Jones, in others McGrath.

well in most bowler friendlly conditions i would still want McGrath over Jones..

 

[aussie]

Only a complete fruitcake would take McGrath over Jones on the type of pitches later in the last Ashes series. Jones was taking 5-fers in no time whilst most other bowlers were struggling just to keep it tight without offering a wicket-taking threat - Warne and Flintoff being the other exceptions.

well its not like McGrath doesn't have the ability to reverse swing the ball once the conditions suite.

 

[Scaly piscine]

well its not like McGrath doesn't have the ability to reverse swing the ball once the conditions suite.

Wickets in the Ashes with reverse swing from McGrath = 0

Wickets in the Ashes with reverse swing from the taff = 10+

 

[Richard]

That's because of injury though, i agree Jones bowled well and is a good bowler, but how can you possibly say that saying Mcgrath is better that Jones is "stupid"? If anything it's the other way around.

You're kidding yourself if you say Jones is better than McGrath.

I know, and if you look carefully you'll see I said nothing of the sort - I've told people many times to be careful in their predictions for Jones, I've talked him down plenty.
HOWEVER, there's no denying the fact that his bowling last summer was little short of sensational. IF he were to bowl like that again next Ashes, IMO he WOULD be able to do better than anything McGrath could offer. Therefore, to say that (in the context of the upcoming series - nothing more, nothing less) McGrath is unquestionably likely to contribute more to his team's cause is, pretty stupid.