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Thread: Did South Africa choke?

  1. #151
    International Debutant anil1405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Wouldn't exactly say this was choke. Small margins between relatively even teams. Maybe underperformed in certain areas but also batted well under pressure. But at the end of the day I feel like they'll look back at the game (and tournament) with some regret and ask themselves 'did we really play our best game and get the tactics right?' Sometimes simply not choking isn't enough to win a game.

    Dunno what's worse. Being an England fan with no quality players and having no realstic expectations or SA with plenty of world class players but knowing that they probably won't put it together on the big stage.
    There is no comparison there mate. Nothing worse than being an English fan. England are pretty meh at both cricket (ODIs) and football. Lets just imagine for a second that both the scenario's you mentioned are equally bad, in which case the English media would rub it in and make English cricket look much worse (it still is worse) while the reactions inside South Africa would be quite the opposite.

    Besides, South Africa just had one world class player in this tournament (Amla never delivers in crunch games anyway) and overall the team is a good side but nothing great.
    Last edited by anil1405; 29-03-2015 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #152
    International Regular theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil1405 View Post
    There is no comparison there mate. Nothing worse than being an English fan. England are pretty meh at both cricket (ODIs) and football. Lets just imagine for a second that both the scenario's you mentioned are equally bad, in which case the English media would rub it in and make English cricket look much worse (it still is worse) while the reactions inside South Africa would be quite the opposite.

    Besides, South Africa just had one world class player in this tournament (Amla never delivers in crunch games anyway) and overall the team is a good side but nothing great.
    Meh we won a world t20 in recent times. Won quite a lot of ashes series in recent times against one of the best teams in the world. Won in India away from home. IN that respect we've been on a par or slightly better than SA over the last ten years and yet we never really produce world class players. Maybe KP in T20 cricket and before that Flintoff in odi cricket?

    If Amla doesn't count as world class ODI bat there are very few world class players.

    And they've had plenty of world class players over the last twenty years and basically done nothing apart from a brief spell as the leading test nation.

    What's the point in having world class players if you ain't going to win big competitions? Personal records are all well and good but if De Villiers doesn't win an international tournament the records don't mean much.
    Last edited by theegyptian; 29-03-2015 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #153
    International Debutant anil1405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Meh we won a world t20 in recent times. Won quite a lot of ashes series in recent times against one of the best teams in the world. Won in India away from home. IN that respect we've been on a par or slightly better than SA over the last ten years and yet we never really produce world class players. Maybe KP in T20 cricket and before that Flintoff in odi cricket?

    If Amla doesn't count as world class ODI bat there are very few world class players.

    And they've had plenty of world class players over the last twenty years and basically done nothing apart from a brief spell as the leading test nation.

    What's the point in having world class players if you ain't going to win big competitions? Personal records are all well and good but if De Villiers doesn't win an international tournament the records don't mean much.
    I've specifically mentioned ODIs in bracket. Am aware that England have a completely different outlook in T20 and they are a team to watch in tests when in full flow. Its the ODIs where they disappoint big time.

    Amla does count as world class. A world class player who doesn't deliver in big tournaments. So most of the fans aren't surprised to see Amla fail in crunch games this WC as his failure is kinda expected.

    Agree with you that Proteas had strong teams in the past and should have won it on two or three occasions. But for the last three world cups they haven't had a squad which could be termed as favourites to win the WC. So the feelings of being disappointed are surely not as bad as probably they were in the late 90's.

    DeVilliers can only do so much. You cannot blame AB as in 2011 he was run out by Faf and here he did what he could and then his knock was interrupted.

  4. #154
    International Regular theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil1405 View Post
    I've specifically mentioned ODIs in bracket. Am aware that England have a completely different outlook in T20 and they are a team to watch in tests when in full flow. Its the ODIs where they disappoint big time.

    Amla does count as world class. A world class player who doesn't deliver in big tournaments. So most of the fans aren't surprised to see Amla fail in crunch games this WC as his failure is kinda expected.

    Agree with you that Proteas had strong teams in the past and should have won it on two or three occasions. But for the last three world cups they haven't had a squad which could be termed as favourites to win the WC. So the feelings of being disappointed are surely not as bad as probably they were in the late 90's.

    DeVilliers can only do so much. You cannot blame AB as in 2011 he was run out by Faf and here he did what he could and then his knock was interrupted.


    Yes I mean clearly De Villiers really couldn't have done much more apart from maybe captain better. The cruel fact is that there is only one winner.

    In isolation you say SA lost a close semifinal. Looking at the bigger picture they've had the potential to win the last however many 50 over and 20 over wcs but haven't. Tbf they seem to have finally got in together in test cricket for the most part.

    It's disappointing from SA perspective that they produce the talent but can't produce at the tournament. And for England it's disappointing that they can't produce the players to give them a chance.

    The majority of players are there to win games and win tournaments. It's only the minority who are chasing personal achievements. Not sure a countries fans particularly care about the career records of their players. They just want to win tournaments.


  5. #155
    International Debutant anil1405's Avatar
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    Being a Proteas fan is not as bad as being an English fan for sure. Yea, the disappointment of not winning WC might last for a brief period before and after the WC. But seeing the team perform well regularly probably eases that grief to a good extent of not having won a WC.

    Plus the limited number of local Proteas supporters I have spoken to over the years don't really take the defeats to heart. They simply move on which I presume is the case throughout the country as even the media doesn't point fingers at the players or the team. Thats not the case with UK though. Having lived in UK and having been a casual supporter of the English football team for a brief period, I can safely say that the overall disappointment of seeing the English team lose is much worse. Even if you don't feel bad or disappointed for the team then the media surely does and will constantly remind you of every defeat.

  6. #156
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Is there an English-Afrikaaner split on what sport they follow in SA? Almost all the Afrikaaners I know don't give a **** about cricket.
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  7. #157
    International Regular theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil1405 View Post
    Being a Proteas fan is not as bad as being an English fan for sure. Yea, the disappointment of not winning WC might last for a brief period before and after the WC. But seeing the team perform well regularly probably eases that grief to a good extent of not having won a WC.

    Plus the limited number of local Proteas supporters I have spoken to over the years don't really take the defeats to heart. They simply move on which I presume is the case throughout the country as even the media doesn't point fingers at the players or the team. Thats not the case with UK though. Having lived in UK and having been a casual supporter of the English football team for a brief period, I can safely say that the overall disappointment of seeing the English team lose is much worse. Even if you don't feel bad or disappointed for the team then the media surely does and will constantly remind you of every defeat.
    Not sure what the English football team has to do with the cricket team and it's supporters. Football is another stratosphere in this country compared to cricket in terms of interest so I really don't see the comparison. Generally the english cricket media are fairly pro England cricket and try and put a positive spin on it when things are good and are critical of the bad times but don't dwell on them. Stuff like Steven Davies being gay the English cricket press knew about for a while before Davies came out and there were no leaks- which is hard to believe would happen in football.

    My fault though that this thread went offtopic so apologies to everyone.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Is there an English-Afrikaaner split on what sport they follow in SA? Almost all the Afrikaaners I know don't give a **** about cricket.
    IIRC Afrikaaners are massively into their rugby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Well, I wouldn't say India choked. They were just up against a significantly superior side. Most people had bet that Australia should win comfortably, and they did. I don't how choke fits in here.
    I have absolutely no doubt the batsmen choked big time,especially Kohli.That shot was very Sachin-esque from the 2003 WC final.Its not that people expected India to win but it was how easily the batsmen succumbed especially when this batting lineup is touted to be one of the best in the world and great at handling pressure in a chase as evidenced by previous tournaments.

  10. #160
    Hall of Fame Member morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Is there an English-Afrikaaner split on what sport they follow in SA? Almost all the Afrikaaners I know don't give a **** about cricket.
    Up until about the 70's most of the South African cricket team were "English", whereas Afrikaans generally played union. So it wouldn't surprise me.
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  11. #161
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    Most Afrikaners generally follow rugby, but over the last 20 or so years we have seen a large increase in Afrikaner (as well as Black and Coloured) support for cricket this side. I am an Afrikaans girl myself and have followed cricket since I was six years old (basically the 92 WC).

    Amongst my Afrikaans friends I would say about 30-40 % follow cricket. Whilst about 50% of my English friends follow it and about 30% of my froends that are black are also following cricket (to some or another degree). There is however a definite tendency amongst my black and Afrikaans friends that most don't particularly love test cricket. Whilst most of my English friends (and a couple of us boertjies) think test cricket is the best!
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  12. #162
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    I have been told by an ex SA player that the feeling when losing is heightened when they choke, better than winning he thinks.
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