2011?? Your team

[pup11]

Do you guys consider Monty Panesar a good enough ODI spinner and are there are any better spin options in England to replace him in the ODI side atm.


Won't Batty or Blackwell be a better options compared to Panesar.

[Richard]

Batty, God no, Blackwell, at present has done more than Panesar to deserve selection, but I do not see either him or Giles (if he ever gets back in) as particularly good ODI spinners, and both of them are flattered by their records to date.

As for Rashid - he's barely played half a First-Class season yet, never mind a one-day one, and talking about him as a certain Test prospect is still completely premature, never mind as a ODI one.

[SJS]

Originally Posted by pup11

Do you guys consider Monty Panesar a good enough ODI spinner and are there are any better spin options in England to replace him in the ODI side atm.

.

I think Monty's problem seems to be that he is not much of a thinker. I could be wrong but thats the feeling one gets. Spinners, in one dayers even more so, can do quite a bit by out-thinking a batsman and being clever and smart. Thats why so many much less gifted players (mostly batsmen) have had so many moments as bowlers in the limited overs game. The names are too many to recount. Gayle, Richards, Sehwag, Sachin. Jayasuriya, Arjuna come immediately to mind.

Amongst current bowlers, Vettori is a fine example. I think Giles was much less gifted than Monty but much smarter than him (except when his skipper decided he would use him in a totally negative mode).

[pup11]

Yeah i also think Monty goes into bowl with a pre-set plan that this is where i would ball and when he starts getting smashed he has no second plan to dismiss a batsman or stop the runs from leaking (that could be due to lack of experience).



Is there any realistic chance of Giles playing ODI cricket for England in the future.

[Scaly piscine]

Panesar's ODI bowling is completely devoid of variation, it's just flat and quick ball after ball after ball. Vaughan's a part-timer and he pretty much outbowled him just because he bowled some obscenely slow deliveries that messed the batsmen up.

[Pup Clarke]

Originally Posted by Scaly piscine

Vaughan's a part-timer and he pretty much outbowled him just because he bowled some obscenely slow deliveries that messed the batsmen up.

Very slow deliveries are actually harder for the batsmen to put away. As I say especially for a spinner the slower you bowl the harder it is to time the ball, get to the pitch of the ball and make good connection. Once the ball goes above the batsmen's eyeline it becomes nigh on impossible to judge length thus meaning that there's more likelihood of a miscue or top edge.

[Richard]

Or at least that's the theory of it.

If it was true, Jeremy Snape would have an awesome economy-rate. But he doesn't.

Some batsmen can smash the sort of stuff Vaughan generally tends to bowl out of the park. But sometimes it's as if he's bowling a ping-pong ball.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by SJS

I think Monty's problem seems to be that he is not much of a thinker. I could be wrong but thats the feeling one gets. Spinners, in one dayers even more so, can do quite a bit by out-thinking a batsman and being clever and smart. Thats why so many much less gifted players (mostly batsmen) have had so many moments as bowlers in the limited overs game. The names are too many to recount. Gayle, Richards, Sehwag, Sachin. Jayasuriya, Arjuna come immediately to mind.

Amongst current bowlers, Vettori is a fine example. I think Giles was much less gifted than Monty but much smarter than him (except when his skipper decided he would use him in a totally negative mode).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is being smart not a gift?

[SJS]

Originally Posted by Richard

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is being smart not a gift?

Intellect is. Smartness is related but not completely. There are some very clever blokes (which is really what we are talking of here) who dont have great IQ's.

Tricks can be learnt and it is these tricks of the trade that will make a bowler smarter. A bowler needs to be kind of street-smart if you see what I mean rather than just come and do his stuff by 'rote'.

Anyway for the sake of this argument it doesnt matter wether being unsmart is Monty's fault or his parents'

[Richard]

I still think that there's an element of that "streetwise" quality which helps any spinner so much that will come naturally and will often be damn hard to learn.

IMO it's a gift that someone like Vettori simply has. He's always been like it as long as I can remember.

[gettingbetter]

1. I Bell
2. V Chopra
3. A Cook
4. KP
5. M Ali (C)
6. B Godleman
7. S Davies
8. A Rashid
9. J Anderson
10. S Mahmood
11. T Smith

[pup11]

@gettingbetter, Lolz do you seriously think Mahmood would survive till 2011.

[gettingbetter]

The law of English averages says that the likelihood of that happening is quite remote...actaully not really. Anderson, Flintoff, Gough are the names that spring to mind immediately when thinknig of English bowlers who have played more that 1 WC - given all the chopping and changing of English bowlers.

Either way, I'd like to see him in there - yes, go ahead, flame me.

[Scaly piscine]

Originally Posted by pup11

@gettingbetter, Lolz do you seriously think Mahmood would survive till 2011.

I'm also sure Mahmood will get lynched sooner or later by irate CWers, if not he'll be burned at the stake next Halloween.

[Chase]

England's Squad:
Michael Trescothick
James Benning
Alistar Cook/Mal Loye ()
Usman Afzaal/James Hildreth
Kevin Pieterson
Ian Bell
Andrew Flintoff
Ravi Bopara
Matt Prior
Steven Davies/Martin van Jaarseveld/etc.
Dimitri Mascarenhas
Robin Martin-Jenkins (we hope)
Ajmad Khan
Graham Onions
James Anderson
Monty Panesar/Adil Rashid
Tom Smith
Liam Plunkett
Some random we don't know about