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Thread: 2011?? Your team

  1. #91
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    Do you guys consider Monty Panesar a good enough ODI spinner and are there are any better spin options in England to replace him in the ODI side atm.


    Won't Batty or Blackwell be a better options compared to Panesar.

  2. #92
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Batty, God no, Blackwell, at present has done more than Panesar to deserve selection, but I do not see either him or Giles (if he ever gets back in) as particularly good ODI spinners, and both of them are flattered by their records to date.

    As for Rashid - he's barely played half a First-Class season yet, never mind a one-day one, and talking about him as a certain Test prospect is still completely premature, never mind as a ODI one.
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  3. #93
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by pup11 View Post
    Do you guys consider Monty Panesar a good enough ODI spinner and are there are any better spin options in England to replace him in the ODI side atm.

    .
    I think Monty's problem seems to be that he is not much of a thinker. I could be wrong but thats the feeling one gets. Spinners, in one dayers even more so, can do quite a bit by out-thinking a batsman and being clever and smart. Thats why so many much less gifted players (mostly batsmen) have had so many moments as bowlers in the limited overs game. The names are too many to recount. Gayle, Richards, Sehwag, Sachin. Jayasuriya, Arjuna come immediately to mind.

    Amongst current bowlers, Vettori is a fine example. I think Giles was much less gifted than Monty but much smarter than him (except when his skipper decided he would use him in a totally negative mode).

  4. #94
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    Yeah i also think Monty goes into bowl with a pre-set plan that this is where i would ball and when he starts getting smashed he has no second plan to dismiss a batsman or stop the runs from leaking (that could be due to lack of experience).



    Is there any realistic chance of Giles playing ODI cricket for England in the future.


  5. #95
    Panesar's ODI bowling is completely devoid of variation, it's just flat and quick ball after ball after ball. Vaughan's a part-timer and he pretty much outbowled him just because he bowled some obscenely slow deliveries that messed the batsmen up.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Vaughan's a part-timer and he pretty much outbowled him just because he bowled some obscenely slow deliveries that messed the batsmen up.
    Very slow deliveries are actually harder for the batsmen to put away. As I say especially for a spinner the slower you bowl the harder it is to time the ball, get to the pitch of the ball and make good connection. Once the ball goes above the batsmen's eyeline it becomes nigh on impossible to judge length thus meaning that there's more likelihood of a miscue or top edge.
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  7. #97
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Or at least that's the theory of it.

    If it was true, Jeremy Snape would have an awesome economy-rate. But he doesn't.

    Some batsmen can smash the sort of stuff Vaughan generally tends to bowl out of the park. But sometimes it's as if he's bowling a ping-pong ball.

  8. #98
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    I think Monty's problem seems to be that he is not much of a thinker. I could be wrong but thats the feeling one gets. Spinners, in one dayers even more so, can do quite a bit by out-thinking a batsman and being clever and smart. Thats why so many much less gifted players (mostly batsmen) have had so many moments as bowlers in the limited overs game. The names are too many to recount. Gayle, Richards, Sehwag, Sachin. Jayasuriya, Arjuna come immediately to mind.

    Amongst current bowlers, Vettori is a fine example. I think Giles was much less gifted than Monty but much smarter than him (except when his skipper decided he would use him in a totally negative mode).
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is being smart not a gift?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but is being smart not a gift?
    Intellect is. Smartness is related but not completely. There are some very clever blokes (which is really what we are talking of here) who dont have great IQ's.

    Tricks can be learnt and it is these tricks of the trade that will make a bowler smarter. A bowler needs to be kind of street-smart if you see what I mean rather than just come and do his stuff by 'rote'.

    Anyway for the sake of this argument it doesnt matter wether being unsmart is Monty's fault or his parents'
    Last edited by SJS; 10-05-2007 at 11:19 PM.

  10. #100
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I still think that there's an element of that "streetwise" quality which helps any spinner so much that will come naturally and will often be damn hard to learn.

    IMO it's a gift that someone like Vettori simply has. He's always been like it as long as I can remember.

  11. #101
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    1. I Bell
    2. V Chopra
    3. A Cook
    4. KP
    5. M Ali (C)
    6. B Godleman
    7. S Davies
    8. A Rashid
    9. J Anderson
    10. S Mahmood
    11. T Smith

  12. #102
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    @gettingbetter, Lolz do you seriously think Mahmood would survive till 2011.

  13. #103
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    The law of English averages says that the likelihood of that happening is quite remote...actaully not really. Anderson, Flintoff, Gough are the names that spring to mind immediately when thinknig of English bowlers who have played more that 1 WC - given all the chopping and changing of English bowlers.

    Either way, I'd like to see him in there - yes, go ahead, flame me.

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by pup11 View Post
    @gettingbetter, Lolz do you seriously think Mahmood would survive till 2011.
    I'm also sure Mahmood will get lynched sooner or later by irate CWers, if not he'll be burned at the stake next Halloween.

  15. #105
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    England's Squad:
    Michael Trescothick
    James Benning
    Alistar Cook/Mal Loye ()
    Usman Afzaal/James Hildreth
    Kevin Pieterson
    Ian Bell
    Andrew Flintoff
    Ravi Bopara
    Matt Prior
    Steven Davies/Martin van Jaarseveld/etc.
    Dimitri Mascarenhas
    Robin Martin-Jenkins (we hope)
    Ajmad Khan
    Graham Onions
    James Anderson
    Monty Panesar/Adil Rashid
    Tom Smith
    Liam Plunkett
    Some random we don't know about
    Last edited by Chase; 15-05-2007 at 10:16 PM.

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