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Thread: BBC's flops of the tournament 11...do you agree?

  1. #31
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    I think he was talking about the likes of :-

    1.Flintoff
    2.Gayle
    3.Tendulkar
    4.Pollock
    5.Ntini


    But there aren't too many big names who haven't performed in this WC.

  2. #32
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Danish Kaneria, Michael Vaughan and Younis Khan are crap ODI players anyway, so they hardly "flopped".
    This is the BBC, remember - you can hardly expect them to differentiate between Tests and ODIs.
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  3. #33
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Well people are mentioning Panesar, if you take out his performances against the minnows.

    Well on that criteria, Collingwood must be in with a shout for most disappointing player.

    83@16.60 and 3/166.

    Yet it's fairly silly to discount the minnow matches IMHO, mahmood, colly and Monty helped us avoid an humiliating exit, a la Pakistan and India, so shouldn't be forgotten.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Well if you take away the performances against minnows, then it ives you a better idea of how good they actually are.
    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    I'm just saying this thread is about "disappointing players in the tournament", the minnows constitute part of the tournament, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    That's true, but the "real" tournament is between the big teams, as cynical as it sounds. I'll use Panesar as an example, he has performed well against the minnows but has only taken 1 wicket against a Test playing nation, whom the real challenge is against. Now somebody like Michael Vaughan has been disappointing against both minnows and Test playing nations alike, meaning that his stats aren't cushioned by his acheivements against the minnows like Panesar's are.

    Not sure if that made sense at all but I'm sure you know what I mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by LA ICE-E View Post
    some people do well against the minnows some doesn't it's to their credit who can make the most out of the opportunity...it's not like it's only them who played against the minnows...
    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    No but some people get more opportunities to play against them and boost their stats, whether they be a batsman or bowler. Performing against the best ois what matters and by taking away games against minnows it gives a more accurate reading of how good a player is, IMO.
    Totally agree with Perm here, don't see how on Earth anyone can seriously claim games against substandard sides, part of the tournament though they may be, mean anything compared to games against the ODI-class sides.

    Collingwood did indeed have a very poor tournament - and it's not the first time some substandard sides have massaged his stats, either.

  4. #34
    JJD Heads Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Totally agree with Perm here, don't see how on Earth anyone can seriously claim games against substandard sides, part of the tournament though they may be, mean anything compared to games against the ODI-class sides.

    Collingwood did indeed have a very poor tournament - and it's not the first time some substandard sides have massaged his stats, either.
    Is this including Ireland and Bangledesh?

    Because if Bangers beat SA then would it be saying that since they aren't one of the top eight sides they shouldn't be counted?

    Kenya and Canada are hardly the worst teams in the world, and if anyone is taking stats all that seriously in the first place, substandard teams would definitely come into that account. Not only that but you should consider the side they are in too. A team like Australia would place far less pressure on a bowler or a batsmen than the English side maybe giving them a better chance to perform.


  5. #35
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Flintoff bowled really well. He flopped as a batsman, which has overshadowed his good work with the ball, so putting him in a flops XI is, IMO, harsh
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  6. #36
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Flintoff bowled really well. He flopped as a batsman, which has overshadowed his good work with the ball, so putting him in a flops XI is, IMO, harsh
    Well, a flop is someone who doesn't perform to hopes and expectations, IMO. And, as well as Flintoff bowled, he didn't perform as well as many had hoped or expected with the bat. That's more to do with the fact that he's over-rated with the bat than his poor form in that discipline, however they both played their part and it's still justifiable to clas**** him as a flop based on his batting, IMO.

    EDIT: "sify" being censored really is silly, given its presence within other words and all...
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 23-04-2007 at 08:19 AM.
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  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Nafees would make my team. What a disgusting tournament by him. He had NFI really, and this was coming from a man who was ranked in the top 20 batsmen in the world.

    He also lost me a bit of money too the tool.

  8. #38
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    Yeah Nafees had a horrible tournament so he should have been on that list but then he is not a big name so i think BBC didn't bother to mention his name.

    But i completly agree with Princey that Flintoff failed to live up to the expectations, but having said that those expectations were overambitious and unrealistic.



    One can't expect Freddie and KP to do everything for the English side.

  9. #39
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Yet you didn't put Hussey into any of your teams or lists of big names that flopped pup...
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  10. #40
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Yet you didn't put Hussey into any of your teams or lists of big names that flopped pup...
    There's still time for Hussey though. Flintoff's on the plane home.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Perm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    EDIT: "sify" being censored really is silly, given its presence within other words and all...
    Why is "****" censored?
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  12. #42
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Is this including Ireland and Bangledesh?

    Because if Bangers beat SA then would it be saying that since they aren't one of the top eight sides they shouldn't be counted?

    Kenya and Canada are hardly the worst teams in the world, and if anyone is taking stats all that seriously in the first place, substandard teams would definitely come into that account. Not only that but you should consider the side they are in too. A team like Australia would place far less pressure on a bowler or a batsmen than the English side maybe giving them a better chance to perform.
    I can't be going rating Bangladesh ODI-class just because of 2 victories.

    Kenya and Canada aren't the worst teams in The World but neither are Exeter Third XI, and we're not ODI-class either. It's a very select group and for the last 4 years there've been just 8 teams in it.

  13. #43
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Must admit I was wondering that myself...

    Can't for the life of me think that I've ever even heard it used as a word, never mind as an insult...

  14. #44
    U19 Debutant Hoppy1987's Avatar
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    Yep very derogative term lol! Never heard of it! Anyone care to embelish?
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  15. #45
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Perm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    This is the BBC, remember - you can hardly expect them to differentiate between Tests and ODIs.
    True, I don't suppose they are too good at recognising the difference.

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