Time for changes

[chris.hinton]

again i calling for changes, but it is real need for it this time.

Hussain, Graveny, Lamb,Fletcher all need to go so we can start rebuliding a new England team before Wc2007, Lets face it the rain is not going to stop so we are out

I will also ditch Irani, Stewart, Harmison and Giles

And my team for the triangler series in the summer will be this

Vaughan (Capt)
Trescothick
Knight
Smith
Shah
Foster
Blackwell
Flintoff
White
Collingwood
Troughton
Caddick
Kabir Ali
Hoggard
Anderson


Apart from white, Knight and Caddick there rest of the players will be in there Prime(Under 30) come Wc 2007. Plus the fact that we can pick 7-8 younger players between 2003 and 2007. and we should play a bit more one day internationals as well

I think that we should get Bob Woolmer as coach and get in Botham and Gower as Selectors

 

[Neil Pickup]

Hussain, Graveny, Lamb,Fletcher all need to go so we can start rebuliding a new England team before Wc2007, Lets face it the rain is not going to stop so we are out
1) We're not out yet
2) Dropping Hussain is lunacy as he is a leader and we sorely lack purpose without him

ill also ditch Irani, Stewart, Harmison and Giles
Irani fair enough, Stewart controversial but I agree, Harmison is just not an ODI player, but Giles is obivously England's #1 spinner so we cannot pick a squad without him.

And my team for the triangler series in the summer will be this

Vaughan (Capt)
Trescothick
Knight
Smith
Shah
Foster
Blackwell
Flintoff
White
Collingwood
Troughton
Caddick
Kabir Ali
Hoggard
Anderson
Ben Smith is only in there because he plays for Worcs. I'd rather see Rikki Clarke, and that's saying a lot. Shah is more suited to four-dayers, Troughton's too young yet.

What has Hollioake done to deserve omission?

Apart from white, Knight and Caddick there rest of the players will be in there Prime(Under 30) come Wc 2007.
That's rubbish.

Plus the fact that we can pick 7-8 younger players between 2003 and 2007. and we should play a bit more one day internationals as well
ODIs are played too much as it is. Why the obsession with age over ability?

 

[chris.hinton]

Re: Re: Time for changes

Hussain, Graveny, Lamb,Fletcher all need to go so we can start rebuliding a new England team before Wc2007, Lets face it the rain is not going to stop so we are out
1) We're not out yet
2) Dropping Hussain is lunacy as he is a leader and we sorely lack purpose without him

Hussain will quit IMO, plus it official we are Out

ill also ditch Irani, Stewart, Harmison and Giles
Irani fair enough, Stewart controversial but I agree, Harmison is just not an ODI player, but Giles is obivously England's #1 spinner so we cannot pick a squad without him.

Giles can not Hack it he bowled ok against Australia but it was not good enough

And my team for the triangler series in the summer will be this

Vaughan (Capt)
Trescothick
Knight
Smith
Shah
Foster
Blackwell
Flintoff
White
Collingwood
Troughton
Caddick
Kabir Ali
Hoggard
Anderson
Ben Smith is only in there because he plays for Worcs. I'd rather see Rikki Clarke, and that's saying a lot. Shah is more suited to four-dayers, Troughton's too young yet.

Ben Smith is 31 but is consistant and deserve a crack of the whip. He was leading run scorer in one days last year.

Troughton is 24 yest Kabir, Anderson and Foster are younger, so what do you mean




What has Hollioake done to deserve omission?

Nothing he had his chance in 1999

Apart from white, Knight and Caddick there rest of the players will be in there Prime(Under 30) come Wc 2007.
That's rubbish.

I realised that just, but many of the squad will be touching late 20s

Plus the fact that we can pick 7-8 younger players between 2003 and 2007. and we should play a bit more one day internationals as well
ODIs are played too much as it is. Why the obsession with age over ability?

Nothing i think bulid and start again

 

[marc71178]

Yet again a major over-reaction there Chris.

If truth be known NO-ONE expected us to get through to the SS once it was known we wouldn't play in Zimbabwe.

Let's face it, we did get very close, but at the end of the day we didn't get there.

Wholesale changes of the way you're suggesting are just ridiculous.

Yet again your Worcester bias is being shown here - Smith and Ali are nowhere near good enough, and Giles plays for Warwickshire so must be dropped, even though he's far and away our number 1 spinner.

Smith is also 31, yet you recommend him, whilst leaving out Hussain, who is proven at that level, and still a bloody good captain.

As for your comment re: Hollioake - he's done nothing to warrent his omission, so why isn't he in there? If you're saying he had his chance in 99, he got 3 games, only 1 bat and 18 overs - nice to see you giving him a chance!

 

[marc71178]

Oh, and dumping Duncan Fletcher seems a bit wrong to me - him and Nasser are responsible for making England one of the hardest teams to beat - so sack them for losing an Ashes Series where we had the worst run of injuries known to man, then not going through when we weren't expected to go through in the World Cup?

What if we'd beaten Australia - we'd now be in the SS, and would you be calling for them to go in that scenario?

 

[krkode]

I don't think Vaughan is ready to lead the ODI team yet. I personally think Stewart (as long as he plays) and then Nick Knight should captain the ODI team. I could definitely see him as a leader by example, although he isn't in the best of form now...

Who's Warwickshire's captain?

 

[marc71178]

Michael Powell - has played for England A in the past, with some success.

 

[Rik]

Michael Powell - has played for England A in the past, with some success.

Yes but his batting has fallen away quite badly over the last 2 seasons.

 

[Rik]

Actually for once Chris has a point, Ben Smith averaged over 70 in OD matches last season, he was in superb nick. But then one season doesn't make a player (or in Harmison's case, any season he averages under 30 with the ball).

 

[Rik]

Getting rid of Stewart...maybe it is the time, maybe it isn't. But to replace him with Jamie Foster is just plain wierd. Roll on Chris Read...

 

[Rich2001]

Ok correct me if iam wrong here, but lets look at the past couple of season in the Domestic OD


Norwich Union - 2001 Season

Champions - Kent (Div 1) / Glamorgan (Div 2)
Runners Up - Leicestershire (Div 1) / Durham (Div 2)

Norwich Union - 2002 Season

Champions - Glamorgan (Div 1) / Gloucestershire (Div 2)
Runners Up - Worcestershire (Div 1) / Surrey (Div 2)


Ok now why do all the teams above (bar Surrey) have absoulty no-one in the England One-Day Sqaud??? Also Gloucestershire had a major spell of OD cricket where they were impossible to beat, yet in that time of picking up like 5 trophies in 2 season's, only one guy was thought worthy of being in the side.. and where is he now?

Ok this comment is a go at any post above, it's just I heard a completly untrue comment in a interview, that was saying England go to much on the County form and rush guys in who have a few good matches/season then when they fail they wonder why (in both forms) :!(

Half the side hasn't even played in the County sence in years because of all the fixtures, look back at the D.Fulton issue (hey Marc remember this one ) scored nearly 2000 runs in the year, backed up with 1000+ again last year, not even on the selectors tounges. Hardly rushed into the side, and many many more examples just like it, yet England have just rushed 3 fast bowlers (Anderson, Harmision, Jones) who have very little if any County experiance...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Very good point Rich.

 

[krkode]

I may be terribly wrong, but when I play ICC, I also win a lot with the Gloucs and Glams. But their players just seem average. Maybe they only work extremely well as a team. They really have no prodigously good bowler/batsman on the team. Just seem like a bunch of brave-hearted, spirited, hard working, individuals who have the mental fortitude to win one day matches.

Even in ICC none of their players get selected for England

As for the other teams, they may have a whole team load of nonsence bar one or two. Personally, my seasons go downhill when Thorpe, Stewart and Hollioake leave for Surrey, and Bulbeck and Caddick leave for Somerset...

 

[masterblaster]

Personally, I would like to see Ian Bell in the ODI squad, I think he has potential, and ive been lucky enough to see him play on TV. I think Irani should go as he hasnt done enough to play International Cricket. I think Mark Wallace looks the best of the Wicketkeepers in England at the moment.

But other than that, I really dont have much clue about English Domestic Cricket.

 

[marc71178]

Rich, the success of the likes of Kent, Glamorgan and Gloucester is a team effort rather than outstanding individuals - that is why there's no-one called up.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Re: Re: Re: Time for changes

Giles can not Hack it he bowled ok against Australia but it was not good enough
Which part of, "He is our only competent spinner" is the problem here?

Troughton & Smith
Ben Smith - let's see another good season first. Let's see him build on 2002, don't forget that he's never hit 40 before. And some 100s would be nice occasionally.

Troughton - 392 runs in 16 innings in 2002. A little more experience is what he needs, see what T_C has written re: young players and international cricket.

What has Hollioake done to deserve omission? Nothing he had his chance in 1999
Remind me of his successful period CAPTAINING the ODI side...

Apart from white, Knight and Caddick there rest of the players will be in there Prime(Under 30) come Wc 2007.
That's rubbish.

I realised that just, but many of the squad will be touching late 20s
My point was that <30 is NOT prime.

Nothing i think bulid and start again
Any particular reason we're that bad? We're the ONLY team to run Australia close and this unit has been building since the 1999 débacle. This time it was NOT a disgrace. Another rebuild would only leave us in the same position by 2007 and then what? Re-build again?

 

[chris.hinton]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Time for changes

Giles can not Hack it he bowled ok against Australia but it was not good enough
Which part of, "He is our only competent spinner" is the problem here?

Troughton & Smith
Ben Smith - let's see another good season first. Let's see him build on 2002, don't forget that he's never hit 40 before. And some 100s would be nice occasionally.

Troughton - 392 runs in 16 innings in 2002. A little more experience is what he needs, see what T_C has written re: young players and international cricket.

What has Hollioake done to deserve omission? Nothing he had his chance in 1999
Remind me of his successful period CAPTAINING the ODI side...

Apart from white, Knight and Caddick there rest of the players will be in there Prime(Under 30) come Wc 2007.
That's rubbish.

I realised that just, but many of the squad will be touching late 20s
My point was that <30 is NOT prime.

Nothing i think bulid and start again
Any particular reason we're that bad? We're the ONLY team to run Australia close and this unit has been building since the 1999 débacle. This time it was NOT a disgrace. Another rebuild would only leave us in the same position by 2007 and then what? Re-build again?

I still think there is a need for chance, England were unlucky in this world cup but other teams are planning for long term whilst we are not.

The selectors are the real problem, That why i suggest Ian Botham for the spot he knows a hell of a lot about the game?

we have played Australia about 7 times in the last 10 weeks did we win one did we ****.......... so why not have change. Half of the players need to go because they are not getting any better.

While we have Giles as a spinner we are never going to compete in this department until We have one GOOD enough, we have to make do with this over-rated player.

I am consitantly fed up of people saying i am worcester bias.
Marc71178 you quote Ali and smith are " Not good Enough" well how do you know that. in august i could have said that Anderson would get in the england one day squad, you would have given the same reply.
I not a Warwick hater that why i included Troughton and Knight :rolleyes:

rebulid is the key as England have never done that before.

 

[chris.hinton]

And we run Australia close..... who won the game?

 

[marc71178]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Time for changes

I still think there is a need for chance, England were unlucky in this world cup but other teams are planning for long term whilst we are not.

I wish people would stop blaming our being knocked out on luck - we didn't go through, but before the Tournament started, who honestly expected us to?

We played well against the Dutch, reasonably against Namibia, not at all against Zimbabwe, well (in helpful conditions) against Pakistan, poorly (in adverse conditions, but they weren't THAT bad) against India, and gifted the game to Australia.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Who has run Australia close recently? They've won 12 consecutive WC matches.

Chris, can't you just accept that Australia is an awesome team and deserving of every victory they get? That doesn't mean England is a poor team by any means.

Also, I agree that you'll have to wait a while to see if Smith is anything great with the bat. Troughton is just too young....you don't to ruin him by early exposure.