Who's Done the Most Damage?

[capt_Luffy]

I'm comparing them with Rose, Dillon, etc too.

Ambrose didn't hav the same elite quality competition for wickets throughout his career, it's blatantly obvious and hence why I see them as comparable.

Then compare them Ray Bright et such bowlers too. Rose, Dillon still much better.

On average, their wicket competition being comparable is a piss poor joke.

 

[subshakerz]

Then compare them Ray Bright et such bowlers too. Rose, Dillon still much better.

On average, their wicket competition being comparable is a piss poor joke.

No because Lillee majority of his career had at least a couple of those more quality pacers around while he was bowling.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No because Lillee majority of his career had at least a couple of those more quality pacers around while he was bowling.

Ambrose played practically every match with Walsh who can't even compared with them. You are being wilfully obtuse and stupid if you think they had comparable support.

 

[subshakerz]

Ambrose played practically every match with Walsh who can't even compared with them. You are being wilfully obtuse and stupid if you think they had comparable support.

After Walsh it was a sharp dropoff. So yeah two to three good bowlers to me is higher than a great bowler as far as competition for wickets go.

This isn't an unreasonable position so I don't know why you are so upset. You guys are acting like Lillee was Hadlee.

I know because I watched those games in the latter half of the 90s. The opposition were basically playing around Ambrose often. Ambrose was mostly a new ball bowler.

 

[capt_Luffy]

After Walsh it was a sharp dropoff. So yeah two to three good bowlers to me is higher than a great bowler as far as competition for wickets go.

This isn't an unreasonable position so I don't know why you are so upset.

I know because I watched those games in the latter half of the 90s. The opposition were basically playing around Ambrose often. Ambrose was mostly a new ball bowler.

It wasn't lol. Ambrose played most of his career with Extremely high quality bowling. ****ing Patterson was better than half of those you named.
Pretending they had similar support on average is infact the very definition of a braindead take.
Your agenda is so blatant here it's pathetic kinda

 

[subshakerz]

It wasn't lol. Ambrose played most of his career with Extremely high quality bowling. ****ing Patterson was better than half of those you named.
Pretending they had similar support on average is infact the very definition of a braindead take.
Your agenda is so blatant here it's pathetic kinda

Sigh.

Yes I already accepted that. How many times do I have to repeat?

Ambrose first half is elite wicket competition.

Ambrose second half is below par wicket competition.

So overall I consider Ambrose wicket competition roughly in parity with Lillee who had good wicket competition throughout.

You can disagree but stop overreacting.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Sigh.

Yes I already accepted that. How many times do I have to repeat?

Ambrose first half is elite wicket competition.

Ambrose second half is below par wicket competition.

So overall I consider Ambrose wicket competition roughly in parity with Lillee who had good wicket competition throughout.

You can disagree but stop overreacting.

It's not a disagreeable statement, it's stupid asf. You are better than this. Even in 2nd half Ambrose had Walsh throughout his career. At times Bishop too. Rose and especially Dillon weren't even that much worse than Hogg or Dymock or Gilmore Overall. Ambrose even in 2nd half had more wicket competition. 2 fine pacers by themselves are worse than an ATG and a decent one.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not a disagreeable statement, it's stupid asf. You are better than this. Even in 2nd half Ambrose had Walsh throughout his career. At times Bishop too. Rose and especially Dillon weren't even that much worse than Hogg or Dymock or Gilmore Overall. Ambrose even in 2nd half had more wicket competition. 2 fine pacers by themselves are worse than an ATG and a decent one.

No Rose and Dillon weren't that good at all. Serviceable. Bishop was past it.

It's pretty obvious by then that WI overall bowling had lost its menace and the general perception was that Ambrose Walsh had to continually try and salvage things for them.

You are getting overly emotional, I suggest you relax a bit.

 

[Johan]

Subs is in denial that Ambrose had better competition for wickets, RIP

 

[subshakerz]

Subs is in denial that Ambrose had better competition for wickets, RIP

No it's that I don't think overall the difference is that stark all factors considered, which is why I take their wicket tallies as they are without adjustment.

And also that Ambrose having less competition second career half didn't increase or meet his wickettaking penetration as is being argued, which is sort of indisputable.

 

[Johan]

No it's that I don't think overall the difference is that stark all factors considered, which is why I take their wicket tallies as they are without adjustment.

And also that Ambrose having less competition second career half didn't increase or meet his wickettaking penetration as is being argued, which is sort of indisputable.

right so if he had less competition during his first half he would've a higher WPI during the first half which would lead to overall WPI being even closer.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No Rose and Dillon weren't that good at all. Serviceable. Bishop was past it.

It's pretty obvious by then that WI overall bowling had lost its menace and the general perception was that Ambrose Walsh had to continually try and salvage things for them.

You are getting overly emotional, I suggest you relax a bit.

You just simply are horribly wrong here. Kudos

 

[subshakerz]

You just simply are horribly wrong here. Kudos

You sound like someone who never watched WI in the 90s.

Kudos.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You sound like someone who never watched WI in the 90s.

Kudos.

You sound like someone who never watched cricket.

Kudos.

 

[subshakerz]

right so if he had less competition during his first half he would've a higher WPI during the first half which would lead to overall WPI being even closer.

Yes. His WPI in first half likely would have been more with less competition.

But then more competition with second half would lead to even lesser WPI then. In fact if Marshall, peak Bishop, Walsh, Patterson were around he might not even open the bowling.

 

[subshakerz]

You sound like someone who never watched cricket.

Kudos.

No I do, which is why I don't blindly worship averages the way you do.

Kudos.

 

[Johan]

Yes. His WPI in first half likely would have been more with less competition.

But then more competition with second half would lead to even lesser WPI then. In fact if Marshall, peak Bishop, Walsh, Peterson were around he might not even open the bowling.

Right

so basically if he had low support cast like Lillee his whole career, his first half WPI would increase and his second half would either maybe Increase/stay stagnant, so with Lillee's support the gap minimises.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No I do, which is why I don't blindly worship averages the way you do.

Kudos.

You blindly worship WPM without any caveats for competition, average be damned as is countries played in.

Kudos

 

[Johan]

Alec Bedser > Ray Lindwall imo

 

[subshakerz]

You blindly worship WPM without any caveats for competition, average be damned as is countries played in.

Kudos

I've given plenty in this thread. Which you ignore. It's easy to attack strawmans but I would advise against it.