Who is the best current International Coach

[honestbharani]

that is ridiculous....england played a much better bowling attack than india did so whether or not bracken and williams are no piece of cake they're stll not half as good as warne and mcgrath




yes hed been out with injury for quite a while and he was completely out of rhythm. anybody who had seen gillespie bowl in that series and before that would have said that.



its interesting though that for more than half that series thay had only 1 of their regular bowlers in the side



when exactly did you beat the WI in WI ???oh and btw that was on those "slow turning wickets" that are more suited to the indian bowlers than the West indian bowlers!!



im talking about the series in the WI....what is the point of bringing up the ODIs in india?

Sorry for the double post.......



Mcgrath, Yes, he might have made a difference, but since when did Warne start giving India nightmares? Last time I checked, he was the one with nightmares about SRT..... I am sorry, but I can accept that Mcgrath would have definitely made a difference but then again, NOT the Mcgrath that was bowling against Bangladesh..... And if you are talking about teams lacking in bowling strength, also take into account India were without Srinath, Zaheer (off and on), Nehra, Harbhajan and Kumble (at Brisbane)..... Remember, atleast Australia had fit bowlers whereas India had only 3 bowlers at Brisbane and at Melbourne......That is why I think what India achieved was really creditable...... And who is to say that this Indian line up would NOT have done the same thing to a great bowling line up? We certainly have the talent to dominate them..... One can only play against the team that is fielded against them. Like I said, the fact that India were short of their best bowlers kinda equalled out the bowling problems of the Aussies.... IT was a view shared by Boycott and Greg Chappell, men who certainly know more about quality cricket than we do......

 

[PY]

As I said earlier, Warne wouldn't have made much of a difference.

How can you say someone with 500+ Test wickets would not have made much of a difference? I know his record is not great against India but to belittle him like that is slightly insulting to him and all of his victims.

And for what it is worth, from what I saw of Gillespie (which was not much) he didn't look the bowler he did through the Ashes series where he finished the leading wicket taker (20). He only got 10 against India.

 

[EnglishRose]

How can you say someone with 500+ Test wickets would not have made much of a difference? I know his record is not great against India but to belittle him like that is slightly insulting to him and all of his victims.

And for what it is worth, from what I saw of Gillespie (which was not much) he didn't look the bowler he did through the Ashes series where he finished the leading wicket taker (20). He only got 10 against India.

Well he was up against higher quality batting...

 

[honestbharani]

"Dominating" a match you nearly lost!

India did not dominate the whole series, which was the point I made with "1 match"





How does it suit them more then their opposition, and does it really matter either way as if they win a game, it goes down as a win regardless of conditions.




To what?

I am terribly terribly sorry but I had to post this:


Which match do you think we 'nearly' lost? Dude, I am sorry, but did you even WATCH that series? We won in Adelaide, almost won in Sydney (acknowledged by Langer, Waugh and the others. Langer's interview a day after the match was over: 'It was a new experience for us, trying to play for a draw'. NOT a direct quote, but what he said was on similar lines.) Hence we dominated two matches. Brisbane was even. Melbourne, they won. So, we dominated the series.... People who watched that series would know.......I supposed that you watched it too, but I doubt it now......

 

[chicane]

How can you say someone with 500+ Test wickets would not have made much of a difference? I know his record is not great against India but to belittle him like that is slightly insulting to him and all of his victims.

But you know how good India are with spinners. Only Murali has given us trouble. Even lowly Indian batsmen can play spin better than many English players. Just to emphasize, macgill was also in among the wickets that year, and he was like it's not that the Indian batsmen don't know what i'm bowling, it's that they don't care what i'm bowling.

And for what it is worth, from what I saw of Gillespie (which was not much) he didn't look the bowler he did through the Ashes series where he finished the leading wicket taker (20). He only got 10 against India.

More to do with our superior batting performance.

 

[honestbharani]

How can you say someone with 500+ Test wickets would not have made much of a difference? I know his record is not great against India but to belittle him like that is slightly insulting to him and all of his victims.

And for what it is worth, from what I saw of Gillespie (which was not much) he didn't look the bowler he did through the Ashes series where he finished the leading wicket taker (20). He only got 10 against India.

I am not insulting anyone, but facts are facts and he rarely troubled India....... AS for Gillespie, he bowled really well in that series and IMHO, was unlucky not to pick up a few more at times....Also as EnglishRoses said, he was up against higher quality batting too.....

 

[tooextracool]

Well Bill Gates is still making money! If you were in their position would you not endorse products and make some easy money, I would. And for all you know they may not even use it for themselves, they can use that money for a lot of good work.

the thing is a lot of people would......so you cant just say that edd giddins is money minded because it seems alot of indian cricketers are too.

 

[EnglishRose]

I am not insulting anyone, but facts are facts and he rarely troubled India....... As EnglishRoses said, he was up against higher quality batting too.....

I wasn't referring to Warne. I was talking about Gillespie.
Gillespie bowled very well against India (although the figures didn't necessarily reflect that) -- however he did face some top notch batting,
particularly in Adelaide -- that Dravid/Laxman partnership was just too good.

 

[chicane]

the thing is a lot of people would......so you cant just say that edd giddins is money minded because it seems alot of indian cricketers are too.

So are Micheal Clarke and Adam Gilchrist. Bu are you telling me Giddins would've used that money for charity and stuff like that? Tendulkar besides the match fees and endorsments even has his own restraunt business, but he also does a lot of charity work...

 

[honestbharani]

I wasn't referring to Warne. I was talking about Gillespie.
Gillespie bowled very well against India (although the figures didn't necessarily reflect that) -- however he did face some top notch batting,
particularly in Adelaide -- that Dravid/Laxman partnership was just too good.

I know.......it came out wrong when I posted it the first time.......I have edited it since.......

 

[tooextracool]

Gillespie completely out of rhythm in that series ? Rubbish.....

Anyone who watched that series would realise that Gillespie most certainly was fully fit and bowling with great rhythm.
Obviously you didn't or you're just trying to twist the facts to suit your point.

dont be ridiculous...either you never watched that series or you really arent good enough to tell when a bowler is bowling well and when hes bowling badly....its not unusual for bowlers to struggle when they comeback from injury,almost every bowler does!!
infact gillespie ended up with a better bowling average on his tour to india in 00-01 than he did in the series in australia!

 

[chicane]

dont be ridiculous...either you never watched that series or you really arent good enough to tell when a bowler is bowling well and when hes bowling badly....its not unusual for bowlers to struggle when they comeback from injury,almost every bowler does!!
infact gillespie ended up with a better bowling average on his tour to india in 00-01 than he did in the series in australia!

Yeah and so also Brett Lee who was coming out of injury, that's why he was crap. So were the India bowlers, Zaheer was also making a comeback of sorts and in Melbourne he limped off which handicapped us. Irfan Pathan and Balaji were rookies leading our bowling attack.

 

[honestbharani]

dont be ridiculous...either you never watched that series or you really arent good enough to tell when a bowler is bowling well and when hes bowling badly....its not unusual for bowlers to struggle when they comeback from injury,almost every bowler does!!
infact gillespie ended up with a better bowling average on his tour to india in 00-01 than he did in the series in australia!

Mate, Gillespie bowled beautifully in that series.......He didn't always get the rewards......More bowler friendly pitches would have changed things but also, learn to give some credit to the batsman..... It is not like when he does well, it is because he is in form and when he doesn't do well, it is because he was out of form.....He was quite magnificient in that series, best pace bowler from either side and he was only thwarted by quality batting and good batting pitches..... Greg Chappell, Ian Chappell and Sunil Gavaskar and Geoff Boycott, all these men made that observation......

 

[tooextracool]

As I said earlier, Warne wouldn't have made much of a difference. And Bracken and Williams were devastating in the tri-series in India just before. McGrath was sorely missed but we also missed a lot of bowlers..

you must know this....ODIs are completely different form test matches!!!
dont tell me you think the bracken or williams were as good as mcgrath would have been?and dont underestimate warne....he would certainly have been bowling better than some of the rubbish that mcgill bowled. warne in australia is a much better bowler than warne in india!

Whatever. Try your best to belittle India's performance

no the thing is you are belittling england's performance when they didnt have more than half their side there and were faced against a much tougher opposition!!

How was I supposed to know you were talking of the WI home series! And that was ages ago, the current Indian side IS different. They have a whole new attitude and spirit, something which was their main handicap outside Asia, because they were certainly talented enough.

well that useless west indian side beat a india 2-1 so i dont think you should belittle harmisons performance when players like srinath,zaheer khan,harbhajan etc werent half as good as he was!

 

[EnglishRose]

dont be ridiculous...either you never watched that series or you really arent good enough to tell when a bowler is bowling well and when hes bowling badly....its not unusual for bowlers to struggle when they comeback from injury,almost every bowler does!!
infact gillespie ended up with a better bowling average on his tour to india in 00-01 than he did in the series in australia!

And likewise its not unusual for bowlers to bowl well and not get the due rewards ....which is exactly what happened with Gillespie this summer.

Gilesspie came up against some very good batting ....the likes of which we didn't see from England the summer before, Vaughan excepted.

 

[chicane]

you must know this....ODIs are completely different form test matches!!!
dont tell me you think the bracken or williams were as good as mcgrath would have been?and dont underestimate warne....he would certainly have been bowling better than some of the rubbish that mcgill bowled. warne in australia is a much better bowler than warne in india!

Like I said we also missed a lot of bowlers, you are going nowhere with this

well that useless west indian side beat a india 2-1 so i dont think you should belittle harmisons performance when players like srinath,zaheer khan,harbhajan etc werent half as good as he was!

The current WI side is far more useless than the one 2 years ago.

 

[Arjun]

As far as India winning outside the subcontinent is concerned, I think India have a better chance now than they did in the past decade with this team. But obviously, we cannot say anything for certain before it is actually done. So the best policy would be to wait and see rather than arguing hypothetically......

They can win anywhere, even in Australia, if they improve their ground fielding and catching, and play 2 spinners and a wicketkeeper who can take catches and pull off stumpings, not appeal for dropped catches and missed stumpings. They can defeat anyone if they outperform and not outsledge.

That said, the best international coach has to be John Buchanan. He has made his team into one that can win 20 ODI's and 16 Tests in a row, and one that has won nearly every Test and ODI event in which they have played. Whenever they play in a tournament, they always win. Whoever coaches such a team has to be the best coach.

 

[chicane]

They can win anywhere, even in Australia, if they improve their ground fielding and catching, and play 2 spinners and a wicketkeeper who can take catches and pull off stumpings, not appeal for dropped catches and missed stumpings. They can defeat anyone if they outperform and not outsledge.

That said, the best international coach has to be John Buchanan. He has made his team into one that can win 20 ODI's and 16 Tests in a row, and one that has won nearly every Test and ODI event in which they have played. Whenever they play in a tournament, they always win. Whoever coaches such a team has to be the best coach.

No doubt the coach of such a superb team has to be very good, but the work John Wright and now Dav Whatmore are doing is more praiseworthy.

 

[EnglishRose]

Seeing as Bangladesh were one wicket away from it at Multan and were only prevented by an Inzamam masterclass, I'll take the Tigers.

Can't see you winning in SA or England or NZ or Aus... Zim don't count... When's the next WI tour?

May 2006.

It really depends on how well their pace attack somes along in the next few years (an series win awy from the subcontinent that is).

An India -England 6 test series now (3 in India 3 in England) would be quite interesting. Its a pity they won't play for a while.

 

[Neil Pickup]

India's coming overseas tours:

May 2006: WI
Dec 2007: SA
Feb 2007: NZ
Jun 2007: England
Dec 2007: Australia

So nothing for two years, and then 20 months where we'll find out it all. I think Bangladesh may have won a Test by June 2006, though!

(Statement to come back and beat me over the head with in three years' time: June 2007's series will decide the number one side in the World)