Warne vs Steyn (Test bowling)

[ma1978]

Inzamam and Dravid weren’t top spin players ?

And Jayasuriya, De Silva, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, etc

 

[ma1978]

Except he didnt when it comes to top spin players.

It’s not just that you cherrypick, it’s that you do it poorly

 

[subshakerz]

It’s not just that you cherrypick, it’s that you do it poorly

Ok then show us counter examples if you are so sure.

 

[ma1978]

How is it cherry picking? I rate Warne literally one place below Steyn and an undisputed top tier ATG. But it wasn't just Lara and Sachin, every competent player of spin performed fairly well vs him and Murali.

Sri Lanka won a test series against India with Murali and Mendis, other than Sehwag had the team in bits

Warne did well against Sri Lanka and Pakistan

 

[ma1978]

Ok then show us counter examples if you are so sure.

Well Warne against Sri Lanka and Pakistan

Murali against India enough times and against Pakistan

 

[subshakerz]

Well Warne against Sri Lanka and Pakistan

Murali against India enough times and against Pakistan

Against Pakistan the only elite players of spin were Malik and Anwar to me and they generally were on top of Warne.

SL, not so sure.

 

[Bolo.]

The only thing I'll interject is this, if I'm facing an atg batting lineup like Australia and India had in the 2000s, given a choice of Warne or Steyn, I'm going with Steyn. We can argue stats til we're blue in the face but my gut tells me I can see Warne being ripped apart by either lineup more often and more easily than Steyn. Why does that matter? Because in these comparison situations, me personally, I'm considering how either player would do vs an atg lineup in relatively neutral conditions.

That's just the nature of spin vs pace though. There will never be a bat who can handle pomp pace without some luck. Spin is doable. And yet we see Warne with nearly 300 wickets more, at a higher WPM.

 

[subshakerz]

That's just the nature of spin vs pace though. There will never be a bat who can handle pomp pace without some luck. Spin is doable. And yet we see Warne with nearly 300 wickets more, at a higher WPM.

That's our point. Spin comes with more limitations than pace in terms of overall effectiveness, though with its own benefits like doing the hard labor overs.

 

[subshakerz]

I think one can make a solid case that Warne is a better or equal bowler to Steyn over the course of a career against medium/goodish lineups given their comparable records against Eng/SL/Pak/SA/NZ, just not top level bats or lineups. Steyn excelled against Ind and Aus much more than Warne against Ind and WI (Lara basically).

Warne had a ceiling that Steyn did not.

 

[ma1978]

I think one can make a solid case that Warne is a better or equal bowler to Steyn over the course of a career against medium/goodish lineups given their comparable records against Eng/SL/Pak/SA/NZ, just not top level bats or lineups. Steyn excelled against Ind and Aus much more than Warne against Ind and WI (Lara basically).

Warne had a ceiling that Steyn did not.

fake comparison

 

[shortpitched713]

That's just the nature of spin vs pace though. There will never be a bat who can handle pomp pace without some luck. Spin is doable. And yet we see Warne with nearly 300 wickets more, at a higher WPM.

He should definitely have a higher WPM, as a spinner, and but for some argument (mostly from James Anderson) a higher wicket total, as well, for being a spinner.

Conversely, we should expect him to have a couple points higher average, which he does, as well.

It's because all these things align as expected, and yet both are still considered superlative strike seam and attacking spin bowlers, that we have such a debatable matchup.

 

[subshakerz]

fake comparison

How

 

[subshakerz]

He should definitely have a higher WPM, as a spinner, and but for some argument (mostly from James Anderson) a higher wicket total, as well, for being a spinner.

Conversely, we should expect him to have a couple points higher average, which he does, as well.

It's because all these things align as expected, and yet both are still considered superlative strike seam and attacking spin bowlers, that we have such a debatable matchup.

Steyn was averaging over 5WPM most of his career until he dipped at the end. Warne never achieved that I think. And why should we expect Warne to average higher if Murali didn't?

 

[Coronis]

Steyn was averaging over 5WPM most of his career until he dipped at the end. Warne never achieved that I think. And why should we expect Warne to average higher if Murali didn't?

Because Murali’s home conditions were far more conducive to spin.

 

[Prince EWS]

Steyn was averaging over 5WPM most of his career until he dipped at the end. Warne never achieved that I think. And why should we expect Warne to average higher if Murali didn't?

The same reason we expect Lyon to average higher even though Jadeja doesn't. You're usually pretty good at this concept.

 

[honestbharani]

concept

 

[ma1978]

Steyn was averaging over 5WPM most of his career until he dipped at the end. Warne never achieved that I think. And why should we expect Warne to average higher if Murali didn't?

back to selective cherry picking I see