*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[RossTaylorsBox]

Michael Mason?

 

[SteveNZ]

I'm not up to speed as to whether this needs to be a New Zealander...but Neil Mallender? Played a long time for Otago.

 

[NZTailender]

I missed someone in the bowling list.
212 wickets at 19.22.

Any guesses?

Shayne O'Connor?

Stopped clock and all that

 

[Immenso]

I'm not up to speed as to whether this needs to be a New Zealander...but Neil Mallender? Played a long time for Otago.

Yes, Mallender it was.

 

[_Ed_]

I'm not up to speed as to whether this needs to be a New Zealander...but Neil Mallender? Played a long time for Otago.

Nicely done!

 

[SteveNZ]

Just glad to get one in there. Truth be told, I hadn't posted on the last 2-3 pages because I was wildly out of my depth on the knowledge of 20th century cricket in NZ - I'd be dead in the water in a cricketing history quiz with the posters on here.

 

[Immenso]

Some of the either prolific, high profile, or too truncated - who didn't make the Plunket Shield career bowling average under 20 list:

 

[Immenso]

The under 20s:

	Player	Province	Matches	Wickets	Average	Span
1​	RW Blair	Wellington / Central Districts	59​	352​	14.73​	1951/52 - 1964/65
2​	RJ Hadlee	Canterbury	58​	270​	15.69​	1971/72 - 1988/89
3​	CJ Drum	Auckland	30​	120​	17.92​	1996/97 - 2001/02
4​	BW Yuile	Central Districts / Canterbury	52​	213​	18.40​	1959/60 - 1971/72
5​	EJ Chatfield	Wellington	79​	370​	19.06​	1973/74 - 1989/90
6​	RC Motz	Canterbury	65​	226​	19.23​	1957/58 - 1968/69
7​	RO Collinge	Wellington / CD / ND	64​	247​	19.30​	1963/64 - 1977/78
8​	DR Hadlee	Canterbury	38​	190​	19.75​	1969/70 - 1983/84
9​	SL Boock	Otago / Canterbury	101​	492​	19.82​	1973/74 - 1989/90
10​	AR Tait	Northern Districts	25​	110​	19.83​	1994/95 - 2000/01
11​	FJ Cameron	Otago	65​	248​	19.86​	1952/53 - 1966/67
12​	NA Mallender	Otago	46​	212​	19.88​	1983/84 - 1992/93

 

[NZTailender]

I looked up my man Shayne O'Connor - 160 wickets at 20.75 for Otago

 

[straw man]

I know he's already been discussed, but that really is an exceptional average for Chris Drum, even if only 120 wickets.

 

[Immenso]

Re: Murray Webb and 80 wickets at 17.

Half of those were in the single season, 1973/74. His final season in FC cricket before he retired aged 26.

I watched Mantis and the Cricket episode on the 73/74 tour to Australia (which is in Sky streaming app). And the players interviewed were surprised and disappointed that he wasn't selected for the tour that season to Australia.

Not saying he'd have been a guaranteed success or anything, he was selected against Australia in the return home test and had a 'mare. That was also discussed in a Mantis and the Cricket episode, selected for the totally wrong type of pitch IIRC. (He also was unsuccessful against Australia in an unofficial test 4 years earlier, plus pretty much bombed out in all his 3 official tests, although 2 of them looked to have been on roads)

Interesting character. An artist/painter. Not a jock, and within the jock sub-category of Fast Bowlers - definitely not a fast bowling sterotype.

https://archive.nzc.nz/Players/1/1377/f_Bowling_by_Season.html

 

[thierry henry]

Did Drum's relatively brief career fit neatly into an era of very green pitches, either in general or at Eden Park #2 in particular? I just remember that in the early 2000s Tama Canning was my go-to example of a 120kph trundler who was benefitting from very favourable conditions. Drum himself was 130kph at best and I doubt whether he was ever going to be a particularly effective international bowler.

 

[straw man]

I was thinking that, answer is probably yes. Alex Tait from the same era makes the list above too, and he was another green-seamer specialist.

 

[Athlai]

Wasnt it like this?
2002-2006 super green pitches
2007-2011 roads roads roads

 

[thierry henry]

I was thinking that, answer is probably yes. Alex Tait from the same era makes the list above too, and he was another green-seamer specialist.

Tait really surprised me because I only remember him as a white ball player. I suppose his record shows this as he played relatively few FC matches and didn't debut in the format until a few years into his white ball career, so must've been a bit of an afterthought as a red ball cricketer.

I was also taken aback that Tait retired so young because in my childhood memory he was this veteran stalwart of domestic cricket. I guess that's just how 5 or 6 years feels like a lifetime when you're a kid.

 

[straw man]

Wasnt it like this?
1902-2006 super green pitches
2007-2011 roads roads roads

ftfy

 

[straw man]

Tait really surprised me because I only remember him as a white ball player. I suppose his record shows this as he played relatively few FC matches and didn't debut in the format until a few years into his white ball career, so must've been a bit of an afterthought as a red ball cricketer.

I was also taken aback that Tait retired so young because in my childhood memory he was this veteran stalwart of domestic cricket. I guess that's just how 5 or 6 years feels like a lifetime when you're a kid.

TIL Tait retired when he was 29, yeah that doesn't match my memory either .

 

[Immenso]

Did Drum's relatively brief career fit neatly into an era of very green pitches, either in general or at Eden Park #2 in particular? I just remember that in the early 2000s Tama Canning was my go-to example of a 120kph trundler who was benefitting from very favourable conditions. Drum himself was 130kph at best and I doubt whether he was ever going to be a particularly effective international bowler.

Sort of yes and no.

I would say all pitches in NZ before mid 2000s were generally on the bowling friendly side, but not always. Not always green.

Rather they were low and slow. Within that:
- Usually either low slow and green
- or low slow and a road.

Where they fell on that spectrum had much more to do with weather/climate, than today.

In mid-2000s we had the FC pitch WOF system come in. More turf science, less use of the fields, more recovery time etc. With a particular focus on consistency of bounce, and preferably more pace and bounce.

I don't think Chris Drum fell particularly into the range of bowlers who benefited from pitches playing low, and ball holding up in the surface - that a Tait, Styris, Larsen, Canning etc did.

I don't know about EP#2, in that era, that you mention specifically. Traditionally EP#1 was batting friendly, and one of the lowest in the country.

 

[Immenso]

I like to think about it this way.

In 1983 NPC rugby. Otago and Auckland payed out a 0-0 draw at Carisbrook.

A field that got so much use that 2 rugby teams couldn't manage to hold a leather ball long enough, or run far enough, or have a firm enough surface for a goal kicker to plant his foot on - to score a single point in 80 minutes. About 4 months later Stephen Boock would have been bowling on that same surface in a FC cricket match.

 

[Immenso]

TIL. Tait and Drum both Commonwealth Games Bronze Medalists.