*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[thundaboult]

Black Cap gets Spirit of Cricket award for unselfish act

Black Caps all-rounder Daryl Mitchell is fourth New Zealander to win award.

www.nzherald.co.nz

ughh

 

[Immenso]

I really enjoyed Immenso's analysis of Rachin and how if your schedules aren't set up right for certain players, you can suck any form right out of them.

I'm not a calendar guy but I wonder if domestic schedules can be flexible throughout a summer to suit the demands of our international side. Obviously T20 takes precedence in the holiday period, but around that - can we stage the Plunket and 50-over trophies as required: ie a round of Plunket Shield this week, maybe another to ensure some level of continuation and form in case players need to be called up, then Ford Trophy in the lead-in to the Netherlands ODI series? I understand there's other considerations at play, but I wonder whether we do the respective competitions in clumps because 'that's always what we've done'

Ironically. This is actually the best domestic calendar for about a decade in terms of preparing blackcaps and not letting players lose momentum.

Although it is still terrible.

Without the Auckland lockdown, we wouldn't have had the Ford Trophy games sprinkled through the fallow days of the Super Smash window (I think), so without it Rachin would have only face 100 balls in 2 months rather than 140. And we wouldn't have had this Plunket Shield game starting today pre-South Africa test giving other potential Kane replacement Glenn Phillips his first red ball game in 9 months.

Auckland lockdown was terrible though for pre-Indian tour prep, the re-scheduling has made things about 10% better than hopeless for the South Africa preparations.

 

[nzfan]

Very disappointing Kane is missing out Both Kane and Ross are irreplaceable. Doesn't matter Devon is scoring runs for fun and Latham in smashing form it's a huge void not having Kane.

Wouldn't worry about Rachin. He's a brilliant batter. Never really seen him out of form for too long in the years I've followed firebirds. Probably still figuring out how to bat at no.7 spot. Everyone needs a little time when playing in an unnatural position. I'm certain he's going to make the squad and will play both the test matches vs South Africa. Rachin over any other batter outside of the settled ones in black caps any day.

 

[nzfan]

Australia's T20 tour of New Zealand set to be canned due to MIQ unavailability

The Black Caps were scheduled to play seven white-ball games against Australia this summer. Now it looks like there'll be none.

www.stuff.co.nz

Was on the cards I guess and not surprising news at all...

 

[SteveNZ]

Argg this summer has been rubbish.

 

[_Ed_]

It's a shame they can't quickly rig up some games in Australia, with NZers no longer needing to MIQ on their way back in from the end of this month.

 

[James]

Wouldn't worry about Rachin. He's a brilliant batter. Never really seen him out of form for too long in the years I've followed firebirds. Probably still figuring out how to bat at no.7 spot. Everyone needs a little time when playing in an unnatural position. I'm certain he's going to make the squad and will play both the test matches vs South Africa. Rachin over any other batter outside of the settled ones in black caps any day.

I'm wondering on what basis you class him as a brilliant batter? He's had 52 first class innings, and scored only three hundreds at an average of 36. A very ordinary record. He's not exactly doing what Mathew Sinclair did early in his career scoring hundred and hundred as an example and dominating every domestic attack.

I'd question the selectors big time if Rachin is anywhere near the Test squad for the SA series. He needs another 3/4 years of first-class cricket to get his game in order and knock down the doors of the Test team with a weight of first-class runs which he hasn't done to date.

It sounds harsh, but I would even go as far to say that he's the most over-rated cricketer in the NZ game. And I'm a Firebirds fan.

 

[ataraxia]

A FC average of 36 for an barely-22yo NZ opener is pretty bloody good. There aren't many guys who average more than low 40s in NZ domestix.

 

[James]

A FC average of 36 for an barely-22yo NZ opener is pretty bloody good. There aren't many guys who average more than low 40s in NZ domestix.

I'm questioning more the "brilliant batter" comment, along with the fact they're selecting him for a role in the team he doesn't play (Middle Order), and they're selecting him on "promise/potential". Not what he's contributed to date in first-class cricket.

Against the SA pace-attack who were superb against India, I can't see him contributing much based on how he went against Bangladesh. I'd rather back a Cleaver, Fletcher. My top-pick would be a short-term fix with Hay (until Kane is back) who at least has some experience, and if you're playing an opener (Rachin) in the middle order, Hay to me would do a better job.

 

[Immenso]

Where is Greg Hay? Hasn't played since new year.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He also has the spin bowling option for late season pitches and overrate considerations (as does Glenn Phillips (fc batting average of 38) which the other options don't bring. Since we won't be playing Ajaz, I expect either Ravindra or Phillips to get the nod.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I'm questioning more the "brilliant batter" comment, along with the fact they're selecting him for a role in the team he doesn't play (Middle Order), and they're selecting him on "promise/potential". Not what he's contributed to date in first-class cricket.

Against the SA pace-attack who were superb against India, I can't see him contributing much based on how he went against Bangladesh. I'd rather back a Cleaver, Fletcher. My top-pick would be a short-term fix with Hay (until Kane is back) who at least has some experience, and if you're playing an opener (Rachin) in the middle order, Hay to me would do a better job.

He (RR) did very well for NZ A as a 6 and spinner. Those games (rightly or wrongly) count more in selectors' eyes than Plunket Shield.

 

[Immenso]

I was thinking earlier, with Rachin and Phillips not having convincing seasons, that it may be a more experienced Plunket Shield veteran who gets a call up. Which reminded me that this exact situation happened last 2 times South Africa toured. Rob Nicol in 2012 and Neil Broom in 2016.

I was musing about maybe Michael Bracewell might be this years Nicol/Broom. Or a short term recall for Guptill.

 

[nzfan]

I'm wondering on what basis you class him as a brilliant batter? He's had 52 first class innings, and scored only three hundreds at an average of 36. A very ordinary record. He's not exactly doing what Mathew Sinclair did early in his career scoring hundred and hundred as an example and dominating every domestic attack.

I'd question the selectors big time if Rachin is anywhere near the Test squad for the SA series. He needs another 3/4 years of first-class cricket to get his game in order and knock down the doors of the Test team with a weight of first-class runs which he hasn't done to date.

It sounds harsh, but I would even go as far to say that he's the most over-rated cricketer in the NZ game. And I'm a Firebirds fan.

I've got a lot of reasons to do so. Opening batting at basin reserve most of the times and often able to score runs is not a mean feat. The first test match in India he played a major role drawing a game on the last day and in the last session in the company of the tail vs some of the best spinners in the world. That's no mean feat either. I think he may have better record vs National A sides as compared to firebirds but not entirely sure. He's definitely got the ticker as well which is required in plenty when playing at the highest level.

Technically he's very good, good vs pace, good vs spin, good off front foot and good of back foot. No exaggerated pre movements. keeps pretty still, moves quickly into position with good balance and head in great position to defend or attack. Has reasonable power game as well. Plays straight as well as very strong square. That's a lot of qualities for a batter, pretty good CV that. Has all the qualities required to thrive in international cricket.

Bowling qualities are good, nice repeatable action, looks to turn the ball and often turns the ball. I don't expect him to be running through opponents as yet but bowling takes time and effort to mature. Most bowlers mature later in their 20s.

He has safe hands, fit, good fielder... He does have tendency to get out to slowish medium pacers and struggles on slower decks. It's a matter of adaptability and slight tweaking of timing. Not a massive climb.

Besides I'm never been a number guy, it's very relative and not as reflective. Have played some cricket to know who's going to be gun in the long run and I trust my judgement.

I guess only time will tell but I do think he's going to be one of the very best. I reckon stuttered start was the best thing to happen to him. Too much success too early for young kids is not best for their growth.

You asked and I told... you don't have to agree with me. Many international pundits agree with me though.

I expect him to be part of the squad consistently and play when the decks are not super green as the 5th bowler. Slowly he will move up the batting position. Expect him to be part of the squad for a very long time moving on to a top class batsman in all formats.

I guess there are two kinds, one that go with numbers and other that go with feel. I generally go with feel on players I rate.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

ok

 

[James]

I've got a lot of reasons to do so. Opening batting at basin reserve most of the times and often able to score runs is not a mean feat. The first test match in India he played a major role drawing a game on the last day and in the last session in the company of the tail vs some of the best spinners in the world. That's no mean feat either. I think he may have better record vs National A sides as compared to firebirds but not entirely sure. He's definitely got the ticker as well which is required in plenty when playing at the highest level.

Technically he's very good, good vs pace, good vs spin, good off front foot and good of back foot. No exaggerated pre movements. keeps pretty still, moves quickly into position with good balance and head in great position to defend or attack. Has reasonable power game as well. Plays straight as well as very strong square. That's a lot of qualities for a batter, pretty good CV that. Has all the qualities required to thrive in international cricket.

Bowling qualities are good, nice repeatable action, looks to turn the ball and often turns the ball. I don't expect him to be running through opponents as yet but bowling takes time and effort to mature. Most bowlers mature later in their 20s.

He has safe hands, fit, good fielder... He does have tendency to get out to slowish medium pacers and struggles on slower decks. It's a matter of adaptability and slight tweaking of timing. Not a massive climb.

Besides I'm never been a number guy, it's very relative and not as reflective. Have played some cricket to know who's going to be gun in the long run and I trust my judgement.

I guess only time will tell but I do think he's going to be one of the very best. I reckon stuttered start was the best thing to happen to him. Too much success too early for young kids is not best for their growth.

You asked and I told... you don't have to agree with me. Many international pundits agree with me though.

I expect him to be part of the squad consistently and play when the decks are not super green as the 5th bowler. Slowly he will move up the batting position. Expect him to be part of the squad for a very long time moving on to a top class batsman in all formats.

I guess there are two kinds, one that go with numbers and other that go with feel. I generally go with feel on players I rate.

Fair points, and can't really dispute them. It sounds as though you've followed him very closely, and seen him first-hand at the Basin. I'm solely going off his stats and what I saw in the Bangladesh series.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope he's successful - just personally feel we have better options right now.

 

[SteveNZ]

Just so you all know, there's a guy who plays for ND who is back to running in hard, taking wickets and pumping bowling attacks in the middle order. He doesn't bowl spin, but I think with a tour of England where his bowling will be cherry ripe for the conditions, plus a T20 World Cup to follow that, we'd be crazy to not be thinking he's right in the mix to come back in the side.

 

[nzfan]

Fair points, and can't really dispute them. It sounds as though you've followed him very closely, and seen him first-hand at the Basin. I'm solely going off his stats and what I saw in the Bangladesh series.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope he's successful - just personally feel we have better options right now.

Yeah watched plenty of cricket at the basin, seen him handle the likes of Wagner, Henry, Jamieson etc.. you definitely have a point he has probably underachieved for the talent he has. Plenty of those close to 100 scores could have been converted to big hundreds. Can't remember exactly but comfortably could have converted 4-5 70s/80s to 100s and we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

The number of times I've seen him get out to military medium pace bowling is staggering. You'd think something was done about it by now.

Even if he was sent off to play more of domestic cricket, whom would you have rather with Kane missing out?

Phillips, CDG, Santner, Chapman, Solia, M Bracewell, Rippon, Doug Bracewell come to mind to bat at 6/7 and bowl a bit. Can only see CDG or Phillips as suitable replacements if Ravindra is not picked. You could even filter off Phillips given he's not going to bowl 20-30 overs in a test match.

Only suitable replacement can be either CDG or Ajaz playing instead at 11 with Jamieson coming in at 7.

Against South Africa and going in with 6 batters is probably not an option at Hagley so that rules out Ajaz particularly with some indifferent form of Nicholls, Blundell and then Darryl Mitchell having had very little cricket as well in the middle order.

It's either Ravindra, Phillips or CDG. None of the three options are bad in my opinion. I'd expect both Ravindra and Phillips in the squad or one of them missing out for CDG which is not a bad option.

 

[James]

Even if he was sent off to play more of domestic cricket, whom would you have rather with Kane missing out?

I'd rather back a Cleaver, Fletcher. My top-pick would be a short-term fix with Hay (until Kane is back) who at least has some experience, and if you're playing an opener (Rachin) in the middle order, Hay to me would do a better job.

We don't need another bowling option I don't think - Southee, Boult, Wagner, Jamieson, Mitchell is enough on what I expect to be some green seamers.

The number of times I've seen him get out to military medium pace bowling is staggering. You'd think something was done about it by now.

Do you think they run the risk of affecting his confidence in a big way if he fails in the SAF series? Better to let him find his way in international cricket in ODIs first?

 

[nzfan]

I'd rather back a Cleaver, Fletcher. My top-pick would be a short-term fix with Hay (until Kane is back) who at least has some experience, and if you're playing an opener (Rachin) in the middle order, Hay to me would do a better job.

We don't need another bowling option I don't think - Southee, Boult, Wagner, Jamieson, Mitchell is enough on what I expect to be some green seamers.



Do you think they run the risk of affecting his confidence in a big way if he fails in the SAF series? Better to let him find his way in international cricket in ODIs first?

Hay is out of it, no chance for him to get in the squad I reckon. That'll send panic signals all over. Gone are the days when BCs used to pick form players from PS, they back the core players these days. There's no spot at the top and playing Hay at 7 doesn't serve any purpose. Young, Latham, Conway, Mitchell, Nicholls aren't going to be moved I reckon. I'd be extremely surprised if they pick Cam or Dane to bat at 6/7 over Blundell, Phillips or Ravindra. Just because Cam and Cleaver bring no other skills other than batting. I think we will need a 5th bowler just in case and Mitchell is rarely used.

From what I've heard Rachin has backing of the BC management, Kane, Latham, Stead, Ronchi etc... so they will continue to pick him. It was obvious when he was picked over Santner, CDG and that when Kane was captaining is a good indication he's fairly well rated. From what I've seen from the games I've watched and followed he has much better chance with the bat against 140 k bowlers bowling consistent lines and length on a testing deck than against say Netherlands or teams that tend to have lot of medium pacers. I suppose he likes the ball coming on to the bat with good bounce given most of his cricket has been at basin. Hagley decks are very much like basin so chances are he's going to be backed over Phillips and other contenders. Batting is going to be a bit of a lottery in the NZ v SA series with both sides stacked with good fast bowling options. It doesn't have to be a hundred but even a gritty 30-40 could tilt the game. Despite no big runs I think Ravindra has looked pretty good in the one day games since Bangladesh. Tough to say if he is picked and doesn't go well vs SA would his confidence take a beating. I guess depends on the environment and the future opportunities. From what I see they have locked him in and will give him a very long rope to come good.

Henry Cooper, McClure, Joe Carter, Michael Bracewell have been in the mix for NZ A over the last year or so but I'm not convinced they are any better than Ravindra with the bat. Outside chance would be Ken Rutherford but is he going to be batting at no.7? I guess it's the timing. No one's in unbelievable touch at the moment and covid hasn't helped either. I'm guessing it's inevitable they will pick him in the squad. We just don't have enough test batters at the moment beyond what's already been on show.