Trueman and Statham vs Lillee and Thomson

[Johan]

Better fast bowling duo between the two?

 

[sayon basak]

Trueman and Lillee almost equal. Statham>Thomson.

 

[kyear2]

Trueman and Lillee almost equal. Statham>Thomson.

Sounds good to me

 

[Coronis]

Some stats for reference.

Trueman/Statham
35 tests 284 wickets @ 25.74 11 5’fers 1 10’fer
Trueman 143 @ 25.76 5 5’fers
Statham 141 @ 25.71 6 5’fers 1 10’fer

Lillee/Thomson
26 tests 217 wickets @ 27.21 9 5’fers
Lillee 119 @ 26.26 5 5’fers
Thomson 98 @ 28.34 4 5’fers

Isn’t good support supposed to make your stats better? Not for these guys apparently.

 

[Prince EWS]

Some stats for reference.

Trueman/Statham
35 tests 284 wickets @ 25.74 11 5’fers 1 10’fer
Trueman 143 @ 25.76 5 5’fers
Statham 141 @ 25.71 6 5’fers 1 10’fer

Lillee/Thomson
26 tests 217 wickets @ 27.21 9 5’fers
Lillee 119 @ 26.26 5 5’fers
Thomson 98 @ 28.34 4 5’fers

Isn’t good support supposed to make your stats better? Not for these guys apparently.

Thomson might have had much better numbers with good support here.

 

[kyear2]

Thomson might have had much better numbers with good support here.

Well played.

 

[Coronis]

I’m curious whether these guys were an aberration (since general wisdom says otherwise), so I took a look at some other duos. I haven’t included the Indian spinners or early Windies pacers. Feels like I’d have to make multiple pairings for those. Perhaps I also shouldn’t have included Lindwall/Miller. I’ve also not included the current Aus lineup.

Grimmett/O’Reilly
15 matches 169 @ 21.15
Grimmett 88 @ 20.85 9 5’fers 4 10’fers
O’Reilly 81 @ 21.46 6 5’fers 2 10’fers

Lindwall/Miller
51 matches 345 @ 23.00
Lindwall 195 @ 22.47 11 5’fers
Miller 150 @ 23.68 5 5’fers

Ambrose/Walsh
95 matches 762 @ 22.68
Ambrose 389 @ 21.11 21 5’fers 2 10’fers
Walsh 373 @ 24.30 15 5’fers 3 10’fers

Wasim/Waqar
61 matches 559 @ 22.12
Wasim 282 @ 21.33 20 5’fers 4 10’fers
Waqar 277 @ 22.92 17 5’fers 3 10’fers

Warne/McGrath
104 matches 1001 @ 23.17
Warne 513 @ 24.87 25 5’fers 7 10’fers
McGrath 488 @ 21.32 26 5’fers 2 10’fers

Muralitharan/Vaas
95 matches 895 @ 24.11
Muralitharan 586 @ 22.05 48 5’fers 18 10’fers
Vaas 309 @ 28.01 9 5’fers 2 10’fers

Donald/Pollock
47 matches 397 @ 21.85
Donald 208 @ 22.01 13 5’fers 1 10’fer
Pollock 189 @ 21.65 9 5’fers

Anderson/Broad
138 matches 1049 @ 26.73
Anderson 537 @ 25.37 26 5’fers 3 10’fers
Broad 502 @ 28.17 17 5’fers 3 10’fers

Ashwin/Jadeja
58 matches 587 @ 21.68
Ashwin 317 @ 22.32 24 5’fers 6 10’fers
Jadeja 270 @ 20.91 14 5’fers 3 10’fers

 

[Johan]

some pretty intresting excerpts from Fred Trueman on Brian Statham.



So even 1960s England was slow and dead very often huh, or maybe he's talking about the county wickets idk, I guess he didn't like George's passive nature?

 

[ataraxia]

Good to hear that Trueman never let thinking he had actually killed a man stop him from bowling bouncers. It made him sick to the stomach so it must be okay then. What a legend.

 

[Johan]

Good to hear that Trueman never let thinking he had actually killed a man stop him from bowling bouncers. It made him sick to the stomach so it must be okay then. What a legend.

a bit of a reach, he is saying that he thought that but he never actually killed a man, I don't think there are many accounts of him hurting people either, and almost none of him intentionally trying to hurt anyone without an off field reason. In comparison, Lillee and Thomson broke the ribs in and very intentionally hurt the English bats in 1974 and tried the same with Windies in 1976, Holding almost took Boycott's head off and hurt Indian bats, Hadlee hurt many and never hanged his modus operandi, and Lindwall/Miller deployed Bodyline against Weekes and Walcott who were suffering from injuries and arguably couldn't even defend themselves properly, Donald deployed bouncers against a man who couldn't even duck to save his life and constantly hurt him, At least, Freddie had the standards to not bowl short to people who can't defend themselves, Lindwall and Donald didn't even have that. Of course, none of them stopped bowling bouncers.

 

[ataraxia]

a bit of a reach, he is saying that he thought that but he never actually killed a man, I don't think there are many accounts of him hurting people either, and almost none of him intentionally trying to hurt anyone. In comparison, Lillee and Thomson broke the ribs in and very intentionally hurt the English bats in 1974 and tried the same with Windies in 1976, Holding almost took Boycott's head off and hurt Indian bats, Hadlee hurt many and never hanged his modus operandi, and Lindwall/Miller deployed Bodyline against Weekes and Walcott who were suffering from injuries and arguably couldn't even defend themselves properly. Of course, none of them stopped bowling bouncers.

Yes, all ***** of the highest order.

 

[Johan]

Yes, all ***** of the highest order.

It's just how the sport is man.

 

[ataraxia]

It's just how the sport is man, even spinners can break jaws.

I'm sorry, but flinging a rock at 140kph while aiming at someone's unprotected head 20 metres away is nothing short of unconscionable. 'Oops I really didn't mean to hurt you as I hurled a 160g implement at your bare skull specifically to scare you' is the defence of complete dumbarses.

 

[Johan]

I'm sorry, but flinging a rock at 140kph while aiming at someone's unprotected head 20 metres away is nothing short of unconscionable. 'Oops I really didn't mean to hurt you as I hurled a 160g implement at your bare skull specifically to scare you' is the defence of complete dumbarses.

Might as well declare anyone over 140kmph of speed a dickhead then as they are hurling a 160g ball at their body with 140kmph anyway, no need to point one out.

 

[DrWolverine]

Viv Richards :

 

[govinda indian fan]

a bit of a reach, he is saying that he thought that but he never actually killed a man, I don't think there are many accounts of him hurting people either, and almost none of him intentionally trying to hurt anyone without an off field reason. In comparison, Lillee and Thomson broke the ribs in and very intentionally hurt the English bats in 1974 and tried the same with Windies in 1976, Holding almost took Boycott's head off and hurt Indian bats, Hadlee hurt many and never hanged his modus operandi, and Lindwall/Miller deployed Bodyline against Weekes and Walcott who were suffering from injuries and arguably couldn't even defend themselves properly, Donald deployed bouncers against a man who couldn't even duck to save his life and constantly hurt him, At least, Freddie had the standards to not bowl short to people who can't defend themselves, Lindwall and Donald didn't even have that. Of course, none of them stopped bowling bouncers.

Bumrah and shami bowling bouncers at old man jimmy

 

[Johan]

Bumrah and shami bowling bouncers at old man jimmy

another example.

though, I'd prefer if this thread returns to the topic of Lillian Thomson vs Freddie and George, as Lillian Thomson is certainly a lot more deplorable morally, by about as much as they are inferior to Freddie/George as a duo imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

another example.

though, I'd prefer if this thread returns to the topic of Lillian Thomson vs Freddie and George, as Lillian Thomson is certainly a lot more deplorable morally, by about as much as they are inferior to Freddie/George as a duo imo.

With helmets, I don't think it's remotely the same. Ofcourse the chances of them severely injuring Jimmy isn't 0, but it's exponentially less

 

[Johan]

With helmets, I don't think it's remotely the same. Ofcourse the chances of them severely injuring Jimmy isn't 0, but it's exponentially less

You can still end up breaking his ribs or hands.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You can still end up breaking his ribs or hands.

Chest guard and arm guard. As I said, much less likely and especially so to be lethal.