Tom Latham - The best Keeper Bat NZ never had?

[Flem274*]

Bit of a speculative post. Thought about it because it might be a cheeky way to balance the NZ all time seconds really well (very important business).

Saw chat on where Tom Latham ranks as an NZ opener and tl;dr not as highly as his average suggests for the well known reasons - can't score centuries against good pace attacks in SENA, which is his #1 job description. He's actually consistent at getting set, he just can't appear to maintain the high standards for an innings longer than 40-80 runs in that situation. Loves a spinner and a domestic standard tourist attack.

Compared to 4 commonly named rivals in this situation (given opposition quality fluctuations I can't do 1:1 comparison but basically this is SENA/WI against good pace #trustmebro);

Turner - 27 tests, 49 average, 4 hundreds
Richardson - 22 tests, 39 average, 2 hundreds
Suttcliffe - 27 tests, 37 average, 2 hundreds
Wright - 60 tests, 34 average, 7 hundreds

Conway - 7 tests, 54 average, 3 hundreds
Latham - 41 tests, 28 average, 1 hundred

Not the greatest list of batsmen ever but you get the point.

In Asia and the UAE Latham averages 44 with 4 tons in 14 tests. India have kept him to an average of 35 in 5 tests in India but he does have 5 fifties so he was still contributing and Sunny Gavaskar along with famous poster OverratedSanity seems to like his spin play a lot.

This is unusual for an opener but makes sense when you remember his age group and early FC career - keeper batsman who batted at #5 for Canterbury and volunteered to move up the order as a young guy because he saw a gap in the NZ team. He has done the reverse of BJ Watling.

It has been better for NZ that Latham did that because he didn't need to be better than Glenn Turner to contribute, just good enough to see NZ to safe starts. He has done this well. However he is the ODI keeper, plays spin well and can concentrate long enough against quality quicks with their tails up to do better at #5 or #6. He is a more talented batsman than Watling or Blundell. I do wonder if we've sacrificed his individual achievement of being our best ever keeper batsman for the team cause and if in an alternative universe where McCullum decides to remain opener and captain or one of our many attempted openers sticks, he is this player.

Heck, if Blundell spontaneously combusted tomorrow there is an argument to slide Latham to his spot with the gloves and try the dumb Young as opener experiment again or bring in Ravindra to his natural opening spot (and 4th spinner lol) or Phillips for a bit of a punt. Latham then spends 5 years or so as a keeper bat.

Basically this is a thread to wildly speculate. Have fun. Happy New Year @GIMH

 

[Athlai]

Ok

 

[Pup Clarke]

Nahhhhhhh

 

[Flem274*]

Ok

you're just sad you called him our best behind turner and this post says nah.

 

[Athlai]

He's our best behind Turner regardless of that word salad

 

[Flem274*]

He's our best behind Turner regardless of that word salad

He's not, but he's better than your face and your posts.

 

[trundler]

Turner sucked against quality opposition too. Nostalgia bias. His runs against Australia came against really crap transitional attacks and he did nothing in England. And of course he cashed in against WI attacks that made Lloyd give up on the idea of spin bowling altogether.

 

[Flem274*]

Turner sucked against quality opposition too. Nostalgia bias. His runs against Australia came against really crap transitional attacks and he did nothing in England. And of course he cashed in against WI attacks that made Lloyd give up on the idea of spin bowling altogether.

Incorrect.

 

[trundler]

Incorrect.

One series against Lillee and he averaged under 20. Averaged 30 in England with no tons just like Latham. Went big on roads that killed spin bowling and almost test cricket in its entirety in the WI though. He's pretty much a Latham clone from the 70s. Also did nothing against Imran in the only series he played against him.

 

[Flem274*]

One series against Lillee and he averaged under 20. Averaged 30 in England with no tons just like Latham. Went big on roads that killed spin bowling and almost test cricket in its entirety in the WI though. He's pretty much a Latham clone from the 70s. Also did nothing against Imran in the only series he played against him.

so i'd already looked it up and he scored tons against the likes of walker, sobers, gibbs, mallett and some dymock **** i've never heard of with a surprisingly solid record (i have now also seen kerry o'keefe with hair). he also top scored with 81 in a collapse to 142 against snow etc in england so the guy can bat. turner did score some daddy tons against pakistan and india yes, and that was good given those sides were on par with or better than nz during his era.

short of teleporting to the 90s or kidnapping high ranking CA blokes to blackmail them into sending their best teams to nz, im not sure what more you expected him to do short of average 50. the way i see it, he scored runs in almost every series he played. you can dislike him for choosing club over country (and he was very much a mercenary), but he's hardly the first and nz players didn't get paid without county gigs.

but yes you are very good at picking your stats you are good at CWing.

 

[ataraxia]

Dempster.

I do agree that Latham could be a good keeper but Blundell, Cleaver, and Fletcher are test-class batsmen or near enough anyway. Hopefully he gets a good score against England this summer - I can't admit to being sold on him as a test opener in SENA vs SEIA...

 

[trundler]

so i'd already looked it up and he scored tons against the likes of walker, sobers, gibbs, mallett and some dymock **** i've never heard of with a surprisingly solid record (i have now also seen kerry o'keefe with hair). he also top scored with 81 in a collapse to 142 against snow etc in england so the guy can bat. turner did score some daddy tons against pakistan and india yes, and that was good given those sides were on par with or better than nz during his era.

short of teleporting to the 90s or kidnapping high ranking CA blokes to blackmail them into sending their best teams to nz, im not sure what more you expected him to do short of average 50. the way i see it, he scored runs in almost every series he played. you can dislike him for choosing club over country (and he was very much a mercenary), but he's hardly the first and nz players didn't get paid without county gigs.

but yes you are very good at picking your stats you are good at CWing.

You're holding Latham and Turner to different standards. Turner never did anything against good pace attacks in tests. He did well in WI which is to his credit but those are the definition of soft runs. Latham is probably as good if you ignore the pioneer points.

 

[Shady Slim]

blundell on the rise

 

[Ashes81]

Turner was a fine player in NZ but his record abroad, West Indies apart, wasn't as good as it should have been.

Having said that, it's tough to judge him away from home as he didn't play much in either India, Australia or England as he missed a lot of cricket as he had a fallout with the NZ authorities.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Turner also had a great 1st class career. 1,000 runs before May in England, and one of only four non-English players to score 100 first class centuries with the only three being Bradman, Viv, and Zaheer Abbas.

 

[BazBall21]

Latham notoriously struggles against pace but is arguably NZ’s greatest ever player of spin. Something I’ve got to give him is his concentration must be truly remarkable. He never ever seems to miss an opportunity to cash in when the odds are in his favour.

 

[GIMH]

Bit of a speculative post. Thought about it because it might be a cheeky way to balance the NZ all time seconds really well (very important business).

Saw chat on where Tom Latham ranks as an NZ opener and tl;dr not as highly as his average suggests for the well known reasons - can't score centuries against good pace attacks in SENA, which is his #1 job description. He's actually consistent at getting set, he just can't appear to maintain the high standards for an innings longer than 40-80 runs in that situation. Loves a spinner and a domestic standard tourist attack.

Compared to 4 commonly named rivals in this situation (given opposition quality fluctuations I can't do 1:1 comparison but basically this is SENA/WI against good pace #trustmebro);

Turner - 27 tests, 49 average, 4 hundreds
Richardson - 22 tests, 39 average, 2 hundreds
Suttcliffe - 27 tests, 37 average, 2 hundreds
Wright - 60 tests, 34 average, 7 hundreds

Conway - 7 tests, 54 average, 3 hundreds
Latham - 41 tests, 28 average, 1 hundred

Not the greatest list of batsmen ever but you get the point.

In Asia and the UAE Latham averages 44 with 4 tons in 14 tests. India have kept him to an average of 35 in 5 tests in India but he does have 5 fifties so he was still contributing and Sunny Gavaskar along with famous poster OverratedSanity seems to like his spin play a lot.

This is unusual for an opener but makes sense when you remember his age group and early FC career - keeper batsman who batted at #5 for Canterbury and volunteered to move up the order as a young guy because he saw a gap in the NZ team. He has done the reverse of BJ Watling.

It has been better for NZ that Latham did that because he didn't need to be better than Glenn Turner to contribute, just good enough to see NZ to safe starts. He has done this well. However he is the ODI keeper, plays spin well and can concentrate long enough against quality quicks with their tails up to do better at #5 or #6. He is a more talented batsman than Watling or Blundell. I do wonder if we've sacrificed his individual achievement of being our best ever keeper batsman for the team cause and if in an alternative universe where McCullum decides to remain opener and captain or one of our many attempted openers sticks, he is this player.

Heck, if Blundell spontaneously combusted tomorrow there is an argument to slide Latham to his spot with the gloves and try the dumb Young as opener experiment again or bring in Ravindra to his natural opening spot (and 4th spinner lol) or Phillips for a bit of a punt. Latham then spends 5 years or so as a keeper bat.

Basically this is a thread to wildly speculate. Have fun. Happy New Year @GIMH

Hny

 

[BazBall21]

Latham - opener that has always struggled against pace and bounce but brilliant against spin.
Nicholls - middle order bat that is decent against pace but increasingly struggling against spin.

Quirky dynamic.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Dempster.

I do agree that Latham could be a good keeper but Blundell, Cleaver, and Fletcher are test-class batsmen or near enough anyway.

Agree.

Am following Chu's progress with interest and don't think it is a big deal he's not playing T20s at the mo.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Something I’ve got to give him is his concentration must be truly remarkable. He never ever seems to miss an opportunity to cash in when the odds are in his favour.

What the hell