The evolution of LOIs in your lifetime

[stephen]

Hogg was not much chop at the first class/ test level. Averaged 40 in fc cricket. Though that could in part be due to the fact that he played for WA and the WACA is probably the worst pitch in the world to bowl spin on.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hogg was not much chop at the first class/ test level. Averaged 40 in fc cricket. Though that could in part be due to the fact that he played for WA and the WACA is probably the worst pitch in the world to bowl spin on.

Migara always has this thing where he reckons Hogg was actually a gun FC bowler crueled by Warne/MacGill, but it's not really true. Even when he played country cricket he played more as a batting allrounder, so it wasn't just the WACA.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Migara always has this thing where he reckons Hogg was actually a gun FC bowler crueled by Warne/MacGill, but it's not really true. Even when he played country cricket he played more as a batting allrounder, so it wasn't just the WACA.

Most of his FC career was more as a batting all-rounder tbh. Though as Stephen said a big part of that could have been because you don't need to bowl much spin at the WACA.

I think if 2003-2007 Hogg got a regular shot at Tests he would have been pretty good. But I think 400 wickets is pretty generous. Maybe 400 wickets at a 35+ average like Nathan Lyon will probably end up with.

 

[jimmy101]

Just my perspective on the ODI batting pioneers. Please correct/add.

Viv Richards started the evolution of ODIs from a drab affair to slowly increasing the overall strike rates with his whirlwind batting in middle and end overs after some consolidation by Greenidge and Haynes.Since then, ODIs generally used to be consolidation till 40 overs and hitting out in last 10 overs.

Michael Bevan brought out the art of closing out innings in the 90s after which people like Dhoni and other finishers started coming out.

Sanath Jayasuriya redefined batting in the first 10 overs post which hitting changed to first 15 overs + last 10 overs with just the middle 25 overs being drab. Good players in the same mould such as Gilchrist started sprouting out.

Sachin Tendulkar since becoming an opener brought out batting for long periods at good strike rate consistently throughout the innings after which the best batsmen in each team started opening and started to aim at playing through the full 50 overs.

Eoin Morgan and the English team have removed "Drab" from the middle 25 overs as well with hitters from the start till the end with good allrounders and brought the norms of ODI scores to 320 plus.

Virat Kohli has brought it to another level now encompassing all of hitting from ball one, hitting in the middle overs and finishing the innings at amazing consistency right now.

Srikkanth, as mentioned earlier by Burgey, one of the first players to attack in the early overs. Greatbatch for his '92 CWC exploits too.

Jonty Rhodes, perhaps for his fielding alone, really raised the bar. Followed in suit by Ponting & Symonds who were just as influential. The 90's Zimbabwean team were also renowned for their fielding prowess.

AB de Villiers, Kevin Pietersen & Tillakaratne Dilshan for mastering a host of new shots in the game.

Just a few suggestions off the top of my head.

 

[Prince EWS]

Most of his FC career was more as a batting all-rounder tbh. Though as Stephen said a big part of that could have been because you don't need to bowl much spin at the WACA.

Right, but my post was based on dispelling that myth by pointing out that this was his role even when that wasn't his home ground.

 

[quincywagstaff]

During his brief Test career, Hogg was outbowled by part-timers like Simon Katich and Michael Clarke – one of the reasons Clarke had to get three wickets in an over in the famous SCG India 2018 Test was because Hogg didn’t break through during the day.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Right, but my post was based on dispelling that myth by pointing out that this was his role even when that wasn't his home ground.

Yeah I agree.

 

[jimmy101]

During his brief Test career, Hogg was outbowled by part-timers like Simon Katich and Michael Clarke – one of the reasons Clarke had to get three wickets in an over in the famous SCG India 2018 Test was because Hogg didn’t break through during the day.

Did you mean 2008?

 

[Prince EWS]

Did you mean 2008?

Nah he definitely meant the 2018 Test which Hogg and Clarke played in.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The more I think about it, calling Tendulkar and Kohli "pioneers" probably isn't quite right. They were just really, really good, rather than doing something new or encouraging a change in tactics/technique etc. They still deserve a mention though.

I'd consider adding Dhoni even though you already have Bevan, he did a similar thing but in a changed era.

Maybe Ian Harvey for death bowling/slower balls etc? Or Steve Waugh/Simon O'Donnell probably did the same thing but earlier.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah he definitely meant the 2018 Test which Hogg and Clarke played in.

 

[jimmy101]

The more I think about it, calling Tendulkar and Kohli "pioneers" probably isn't quite right. They were just really, really good, rather than doing something new or encouraging a change in tactics/technique etc. They still deserve a mention though.

I'd consider adding Dhoni even though you already have Bevan, he did a similar thing but in a changed era.

Maybe Ian Harvey for death bowling/slower balls etc? Or Steve Waugh/Simon O'Donnell probably did the same thing but earlier.

Yeah agree Dhoni really took the role of "finisher" to a new level. Rightfully earned the nickname of Mr. Cool. Infact I'd even throw Hussey's name in there when it comes to greatest death overs batsmen.

I was also going to mention Harvey earlier. Chris Harris deserves a mention too for death overs economy IMO.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I was thinking the NZ 90s bowling tactics of slow-mediums all the way through might have been worth a shout but that never really caught on did it. It was probably more just a case of NZ making the best of what they had available.

 

[vcs]

SA's 90's ODI team was really, really good. Consistently did well in all conditions and really should have won more big titles. All those all-rounders, bat deep taken to a whole different level.

 

[jimmy101]

I was thinking the NZ 90s bowling tactics of slow-mediums all the way through might have been worth a shout but that never really caught on did it. It was probably more just a case of NZ making the best of what they had available.

Pretty much yeah. Before Bond came onto the scene their attack revolved around blokes like Larsen, Harris, Doull, Cairns & Nash, who were all in their own right excellent at restricting scoring and bowling to their fields.

Infact, some of the intl teams of the 90's which didn't have an abundance of super-talented players did really well in playing to their strengths & improving aspects of their game outside of batting/bowling. NZ & Zim, as I mentioned earlier, always put a hell of a lot of work into their fielding.

On this point, can anyone here point to some of the first fielders who employed the tandem fielding measures that are commonplace these days? You know, like when one guy scoops up the ball to a secondary player who rockets it back in from the boundary.

 

[Borges]

Srikkanth, as mentioned earlier by Burgey, one of the first players to attack in the early overs. Greatbatch for his '92 CWC exploits too.

Jonty Rhodes, perhaps for his fielding alone, really raised the bar. Followed in suit by Ponting & Symonds who were just as influential. The 90's Zimbabwean team were also renowned for their fielding prowess.

AB de Villiers, Kevin Pietersen & Tillakaratne Dilshan for mastering a host of new shots in the game.

Just a few suggestions off the top of my head.

Neil Fairbrother was a true pioneer: kept the scoreboard ticking by knocking the ball into the gaps and then running like the wind.
The technique that imitators like Bevan and Dhoni later adopted with great success.

 

[jimmy101]

SA's 90's ODI team was really, really good. Consistently did well in all conditions and really should have won more big titles. All those all-rounders, bat deep taken to a whole different level.

Indeed. So many strengths in their 90's teams and the extra batting was a huge factor. As we all know they we're robbed of a finals berth in the '92 WC and had Donald not had a brain fade in the '99 semi they may very well have claimed their 2nd ODI World Cup that year.

 

[jimmy101]

Neil Fairbrother was a true pioneer: kept the scoreboard ticking by knocking the ball into the gaps and then running like the wind.
The technique that imitators like Bevan and Dhoni later adopted with great success.

For sure. Fairbrother must have been one of the first to make ample use of quick singles/knocking good balls into gaps rather than blocking them. Ponting was also rather good at this IMO.

 

[cnerd123]

That NZ team of the 90s took Associate Cricket Limited Overs strategies and somehow made it to the KO stages of two World Cups. Massively impressive.

 

[Dan]

Migara always has this thing where he reckons Hogg was actually a gun FC bowler crueled by Warne/MacGill, but it's not really true. Even when he played country cricket he played more as a batting allrounder, so it wasn't just the WACA.

Australia's current batting stocks don't pass the Brad Hogg Test ffs. Let alone the (original) version of the Rohrer Test. When stephen said he averaged 40, my first thought was "hmm, I don't remember his batting average being that high."

I'd say Hogg's bowling is a myth in red ball but I don't think I've ever seen anyone (Migara aside) think he was genuinely good.