The class of mid 00's

[Slifer]

Only one of Vaughan's centuries actually came against an Australian team with Warne in it fwiw.

Vaughan scored 3 tons. 1 vs Warne, McGrath, Gillespie. The other vs MacGill, McGrath and Gillespie. Either one of these two attacks are better than anything Kohli faced in 2016 in Australia. The attack Vaughan faced in the last test where he also tonnes up was ok I'll give u that.

 

[Daemon]

Wanted to check up bowling speeds for the series but of course you can't do that anymore on cricinfo.

Only the first game seems to have the speeds available on commentary.*

First over of India's second innings

0.1
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, shortish on leg stump, nudged into the leg side
0.2
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, a bit more bounce at 141 kph, Vijay is pushed back further as he turns it to square leg
0.3
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, back of a length and bang on off stump, Vijay has enough time to move back and block a 144 kph delivery
0.4
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, very well left by Vijay as this is a 144 kph good length ball that probes him around the fifth-sixth stump
0.5
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, stays in line with a back of a length ball on leg stump at 145 kph, nudged towards midwicket
0.6
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, solid defence from Vijay, keeps it out with a bit of an open face. Decent length again and the accuracy is almost perfect. One down, 97 to go. There is a minor issue with our scoring, please bear with us

Of course that's only the first over, so he's still fresh. What about his 3rd spell?

58.1
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, 140kph, goes short on middle and leg, Vijay has enough time to duck under it

58.6
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, 144kph, good length ball probing outside off, Vijay was looking to defend, then decided to leave and the ball runs off the bat to second slip

60.3
0
Johnson to Vijay, no run, fuller delivery outside off, lots of pace on this - 143 kph. Beats Vijay's poke because of that

Next spell?

86.1
W
Johnson to Aaron, OUT, 140kph, perfect ball first up and he's plumb in front! It was full, it curled in and Aaron is stuck in the crease and struck on the back pad. Off goes Aaron, Mitch has a huge smile on his face as he gambols around with his team-mates
VR Aaron lbw b Johnson 1 (9m 3b 0x4 0x6) SR: 33.33

86.2
1lb
Johnson to I Sharma, 1 leg bye, inside edge onto pad and it runs down to fine leg. Johnson keeps bowling full and nipping it back in at the right-hander at 144 kph

So clearly not 135 tops

*not on every ball, only a select few for some reason

 

[vcs]

Yeah, I didn't watch much of that series but I remember Johnson being unlucky a couple of times, especially in Melbourne, he had Kohli dropped off his bowling.

Pitches were flat yes, but then they've been flat in Australia through most of the last decade. The series against SA last year and the D/N match against NZ are the only exceptions that come to mind.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wanted to check up bowling speeds for the series but of course you can't do that anymore on cricinfo.

Only the first game seems to have the speeds available on commentary.*

First over of India's second innings




Of course that's only the first over, so he's still fresh. What about his 3rd spell?



Next spell?



So clearly not 135 tops

*not on every ball, only a select few for some reason

We didn't need that to know TJB was talking utter bollocks, but it helps.

 

[Gob]

Wanted to check up bowling speeds for the series but of course you can't do that anymore on cricinfo.

Only the first game seems to have the speeds available on commentary.*

First over of India's second innings




Of course that's only the first over, so he's still fresh. What about his 3rd spell?



Next spell?



So clearly not 135 tops

*not on every ball, only a select few for some reason

He was bowling from high 140's to mid 150's twelve months ago so there was still a drop in of pace from what you posted and in this level it does make a huge difference.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think anyone's arguing he wasn't slightly down on pace. I said so myself. But saying he was bowling 135 kph tops was clearly done to get a rise out of hb, so I guess tjb should pat himself on the back.

 

[RK_123]

Fair to say Hussey is behind the other names debuted in mid 2000s.

 

[Gob]

He was bowling 145-150 but you just dont wanna acknowledge it. And FWIW, he was a mediocre test bowler except for one summer... Dont make it seem like it was Curtly Ambrose having an off series. As I said, you people just can't own up to the fact that he was not good enough that series and need to find excuses. And then we have to sit through the **** these same peeple spout about how Sachin fanbois always have an excuse for Sachin's failures. Really impressive guys... Keep it up. There can never be a game of cricket where Australia or a player from Australia is bettered that the fanbois can't find an excuse for. '

I would refrain from expressing my true feelings for this post and for you in general for the sake of not getting a ban but still why do you have to make everything in to a them vs us dick waving contest? I honestly could not care if Kohli got the runs or Johnson got the wickets and i have never particularly liked Johnson anyway. i'm simply expressing my opinions on what i recall from that series and that is Johnson was at least 5 kmph slower and i don't know it was because he was holding back because the wickets were flat blah blah my point is he did not bowl anywhere near as well as he did against England and South Africa. Did Kohli and India played him better than England did? yeah. How would the Indians have fared against a Mitchell Johnson who was trying to hit every ball on the batsman's head and kill him on a relatively faster wicket? we may never know.

Non of the above actually matter anyway because one of his best friends ****ing died facing up to the thing that he does better than anyone and that alone is enough for me to tolerate the below par performance

 

[TheJediBrah]

So obviously your very first posts on the subject about how he was not fast etc etc was because you did not care about how fast he was bowling? and which commentators were going on and on about it ? You and ? Dude, you came out saying he was not bowling fast and implied it was the reason Kohli got the runs. When pointed out that it was not the reality, you have jumped to name calling and more stupid posting. Awesome.

Sorry you got upset by this, but no I really wasn't. It was one very small part of my post. I didn't say it was "the reason" he got the runs. He got the runs because he is a great player and was in insane form. The discussion was comparing it to Michael Vaughan in 2002-03 and how it wasn't the same, partly because of the comparative bowling attacks.

Someone mentioned that Johnson & co. wasn't much of a step down, which is clearly absurd, but may have held more weight if Johnson was anywhere near his best. Which he clearly wasn't.

Anyway the main point wasn't just the bowling attacks, or specifically Johnson, but the pitches. The pitches in 2014-15 were a joke, and as I said it was a miracle we got even 2 results that series.

No one is trying to discredit Kohli or say that his runs "don't count" or whatever it is you're worried about. It just wasn't in the same league as Vaughan for various reasons.

I hope this makes you feel better

 

[TheJediBrah]

Couple of interesting stories:

Harris laments docile pitches | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo - talks about docility of the pitches, largely from a fast-bowlers point of view though so keep that in mind

Mitchell Johnson wants shorter spells | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo - about Johnson specifically:

"Mitchell Johnson will ask Australia's captain Steven Smith and coach Darren Lehmann for shorter spells akin to those he fired down at England last summer, after admitting he has throttled back his pace due to the longer stints asked of him against India.

Save for an influential spell on the final morning of the Gabba Test, Johnson's returns have trailed off this summer, while his pace has also been down by around 10km/h on what England and South Africa were subjected to.

However there have been numerous longer spells this season, something Johnson has responded to by reducing his pace in an effort to maintain his energy levels."

The point being that his pace was significantly down. The relevance of the exact numerical values that represent his pace is very questionable so I really don't get why it's causing such a big deal. Whether he was bowling 135 or 140 has negligible bearing on what we were actually talking about.

 

[morgieb]

Yeah, I didn't watch much of that series but I remember Johnson being unlucky a couple of times, especially in Melbourne, he had Kohli dropped off his bowling.

Pitches were flat yes, but then they've been flat in Australia through most of the last decade. The series against SA last year and the D/N match against NZ are the only exceptions that come to mind.

I think there was a difference towards the pitches we usually see in Australia and the wickets that got served up in that series though. Not only were they flat, they were also quite slow. Plus they felt flatter than usual.

 

[stephen]

It was almost like CA was trying to make sure that every test went all 5 days to bring in more revenue.

 

[honestbharani]

I would refrain from expressing my true feelings for this post and for you in general for the sake of not getting a ban but still why do you have to make everything in to a them vs us dick waving contest? I honestly could not care if Kohli got the runs or Johnson got the wickets and i have never particularly liked Johnson anyway. i'm simply expressing my opinions on what i recall from that series and that is Johnson was at least 5 kmph slower and i don't know it was because he was holding back because the wickets were flat blah blah my point is he did not bowl anywhere near as well as he did against England and South Africa. Did Kohli and India played him better than England did? yeah. How would the Indians have fared against a Mitchell Johnson who was trying to hit every ball on the batsman's head and kill him on a relatively faster wicket? we may never know.

Non of the above actually matter anyway because one of his best friends ****ing died facing up to the thing that he does better than anyone and that alone is enough for me to tolerate the below par performance

Coz that is how you guys post. And FWIW, I keep telling this again and again, there have been many players who have had freak seasons. I dont judge any player based on how they would have done against a particular player who clearly had much better than norm freak season for anything.

 

[stephen]

Anyway Kohli was pretty darned good that series, but nothing on the Amla 2012/13 vintage. He was a total wrecking ball and took the game away from us at key points. Looking back over the stats for the series his stats on paper don't reflect his impact. That 196 in the second innings of the third test was the key to South Africa walking away with the trophy.

 

[honestbharani]

Sorry you got upset by this, but no I really wasn't. It was one very small part of my post. I didn't say it was "the reason" he got the runs. He got the runs because he is a great player and was in insane form. The discussion was comparing it to Michael Vaughan in 2002-03 and how it wasn't the same, partly because of the comparative bowling attacks.

Someone mentioned that Johnson & co. wasn't much of a step down, which is clearly absurd, but may have held more weight if Johnson was anywhere near his best. Which he clearly wasn't.

Anyway the main point wasn't just the bowling attacks, or specifically Johnson, but the pitches. The pitches in 2014-15 were a joke, and as I said it was a miracle we got even 2 results that series.

No one is trying to discredit Kohli or say that his runs "don't count" or whatever it is you're worried about. It just wasn't in the same league as Vaughan for various reasons.

I hope this makes you feel better

Lol. Good try. FWIW, I will always hold Vaughan's performance higher than almost any batting performance in Australia except Lara's. And read your own posts again. If this is what you wanted to communicate, you did not do a good job of doing that. And again, Johnson's "best" was a season and a half, its no way to judge anyone or we can go back and figure out every other player who had a freakish season and say certain other players won't have done well either. Just like I said about the Sachin post, you don't need to invent excuses why Vaughan's performances were better than Kohli's. They clearly were off their own merits.

 

[honestbharani]

I think there was a difference towards the pitches we usually see in Australia and the wickets that got served up in that series though. Not only were they flat, they were also quite slow. Plus they felt flatter than usual.

I don't know about slow coz Melbourne was fast enough and Brisbane seemed to be ok too. Adelaide and Sydney have always been on the flatter side as well IIRC. There was a lot of discussion on how most of them being drop in wickets makes them flatter than usual in the commentary. But again, they have been drop in tracks almost all along.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Melbourne was extreme;y slow

 

[stephen]

Lol. Good try. FWIW, I will always hold Vaughan's performance higher than almost any batting performance in Australia except Lara's. And read your own posts again. If this is what you wanted to communicate, you did not do a good job of doing that. And again, Johnson's "best" was a season and a half, its no way to judge anyone or we can go back and figure out every other player who had a freakish season and say certain other players won't have done well either. Just like I said about the Sachin post, you don't need to invent excuses why Vaughan's performances were better than Kohli's. They clearly were off their own merits.

2013/14 for Johnson was the realisation of the potential Johnson always had. In the past though he'd have one beast mode test and two terrible tests. He was the most hot and cold bowler I've ever seen. 2013/14 was just him stringing 8 of his hot tests together in a row.

 

[stephen]

Lol. Good try. FWIW, I will always hold Vaughan's performance higher than almost any batting performance in Australia except Lara's. And read your own posts again. If this is what you wanted to communicate, you did not do a good job of doing that. And again, Johnson's "best" was a season and a half, its no way to judge anyone or we can go back and figure out every other player who had a freakish season and say certain other players won't have done well either. Just like I said about the Sachin post, you don't need to invent excuses why Vaughan's performances were better than Kohli's. They clearly were off their own merits.

Lara was always the batsman I most feared growing up. His double hundred in the 92/93 series was completely demoralising.

Sachin and Dravid really took over after the WIndies fell off a cliff in 2000. And since then it's been ABDV/Amla/Kallis/Smith and Kohli I've been most impressed by touring Australia.

 

[honestbharani]

Melbourne was extreme;y slow

Are you sure you are not confusing flat with slow?