Test XI for The Last Quarter Century

[Starfighter]

I also think that since it's not as easy to hit the ball to the deep and run 2/3 anymore, batsmen don't really try as much. Before the fielders were slower, didn't throw as well, boundaries were bigger, and generally the ball wouldn't travel that quick to the fielder, so players probably took on more risks to turn around and come back for a 2nd/3rd. Now days I don't think anyone really tries that (and it's why Kohli and Dhoni stand out so much when they do so)

Now it's more binary. 2s and 3s are just rarer overall.

Yeah, I forgot that. How often do you see a batsman blaze a flat shot and fielder on the boundary takes the ball on the first bounce, and they only get one? Whereas when the ball travels more slowly they might think of going for a tight second.

 

[cnerd123]

Well I as right again. So really JediBrah should have been trying to prove me wrong.

But I am appreciative to StarFighter for sharing this information with everyone.

What do you want the forum to be *****, a battleground of people doing oneupmanship, or people sharing knowledge and thoughts?

What I want the forum to be is irrelevant.

I just believe -very strongly- that if you are going to assert something that you be the one who brings evidence to the table, or you shut up when called out on it. I feel that is basic manners when engaging with someone.

What you do is have other forumers who are as nice as Starfighter go run around and crunch the data for you, or you demand they go open a new thread for you to then engage their questions ('if so inclined'). People here aren't your stats monkeys, nor are your opinions so worth the effort of us jumping through your hoops to help you justify them.

I just very strongly do not like when people are all huster and bluster and won't put in the work to justify what they're saying, and yet will argue it to the death. Regardless of if they're right or wrong. It's just really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

It annoys me too. I use statsguru too, but I take the numbers and do the maths tediously to tease out relevant figures.


You're only partially right.

I am right for my original statement which I reasoned out. I couldn't care less for the run outs which JediBrah brought up.

I am so not sure on this. I wouldn't be at all surprised if batting averages are increasing, while bowling averages stay the same and E/R gets worse, which means SR of batsmen is increasing.

Records | One-Day Internationals | Batting records | Highest career batting average | ESPNcricinfo

Half the top career average batsmen played THIS YEAR already. Half.

I don't think that's mathematically possible, unless you think there has been a significant reduction in the number of run outs.

And he took a dive while insulting me. So I'm doing a happy dance. And I thank you for your help StarFighter.

 

[Starfighter]

I wasn't going by memory, I just made a bad bet. Happens sometimes.

That's worse then. I was being kind to you and you blew it.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

That's worse then. I was being kind to you and you blew it.

Bah - it happens.

I am kind to people all the time and they blow it. What's the moral - do we stop being kind to people?

 

[OverratedSanity]

I wasn't going by memory, I just made a bad bet. Happens sometimes.

Wtf so you were just guessing even though you actually had no idea

I guess the confidence is admirable

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well I as right again. So really JediBrah should have been trying to prove me wrong.

But I am appreciative to StarFighter for sharing this information with everyone.

What do you want the forum to be *****, a battleground of people doing oneupmanship, or people sharing knowledge and thoughts?

Stop it. You made a completely incorrect statement, was corrected on it by a few people, then obfuscate and try to play the victim. You are unable to admit when you've said something wrong and that's what causes all these "pleasant conversations" as you call them.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Stop it. You made a completely incorrect statement, was corrected on it by a few people, then obfuscate and try to play the victim. You are unable to admit when you've said something wrong and that's what causes all these "pleasant conversations" as you call them.

Cheer up JediBrah, you'll get me one day.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Wtf so you were just guessing even though you actually had no idea

I guess the confidence is admirable

Dude I said I bet on the run outs. I didn't say I think, or that I know.

 

[cnerd123]

That's worse then. I was being kind to you and you blew it.

Wtf so you were just guessing even though you actually had no idea

I guess the confidence is admirable

This is worse than claiming Jos Butler is better than MSD overall - atleast then he bothered to look up their SRs on Cricinfo

It's really remarkable how much he's willing to argue and defend completely unsubstantiated view points, and then also do no work of his own to justify them, and somehow we're all assholes for not allowing him this freedom.

Geez.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

This is worse than claiming Jos Butler is better than MSD overall - atleast then he bothered to look up their SRs on Cricinfo

.

Never did I say this. Not once. Not even remotely.

If this is what you read, your interpretation is ridiculously awful.

I want Jos Butler in my fanatasy team asa Striker over MS DHoni.

If I wanted someone to bat 5 or a long time - Dhoni is better overall than Buttler. Noone would doubt this.

But in a superstar team of strikers bhatting down to 9, I want Buttler's power. He has outstrike rated Dhoni for the past 6 years comfortably.

Just get it right ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Butler was my preference for a role in my team to Dhoni. For different roles like accumulation, Dhoni would be better to Buttler.

I don't want a Dhonit take it deep, I wanted a #batdeep and strike hard.

Stop making things up.

 

[Starfighter]

Dude I said I bet on the run outs. I didn't say I think, or that I know.

You said:

Run outs have increased.

HALF the career highest average batsmen have played this year.

It is possible and I explained it.

Records | One-Day Internationals | Batting records | Highest career batting average | ESPNcricinfo

That doesn't sound like a bet to me, more just baseless assertion.

This is worse than claiming Jos Butler is better than MSD overall - atleast then he bothered to look up their SRs on Cricinfo

It's really remarkable how much he's willing to argue and defend completely unsubstantiated view points, and then also do no work of his own to justify them, and somehow we're all assholes for not allowing him this freedom.

Geez.

QED

 

[TheJediBrah]

This is worse than claiming Jos Butler is better than MSD overall - atleast then he bothered to look up their SRs on Cricinfo

It's really remarkable how much he's willing to argue and defend completely unsubstantiated view points, and then also do no work of his own to justify them, and somehow we're all assholes for not allowing him this freedom.

Geez.

The run out thing isn't a big deal, that was just a guess, it was the insistence that batting averages and bowling averages were somehow, in defiance of all mathematics, varying independently that is mind-blowing.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

You said:


That doesn't sound like a bet to me, more just baseless assertion.



QED

Yeah that's all fine. My point is that batting averages are increasing while bowling averages the same. Bolo (I think deleted his crticisim post) and Jedi came in too) - but either way, I am right. Batting averages are increasing.

I couldn't care about run outs.

Take allt he points from me you like Starfighter, you've earned them.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

The run out thing isn't a big deal, that was just a guess, it was the insistence that batting averages and bowling averages were somehow, in defiance of all mathematics, varying independently that is mind-blowing.

But you realise batting averages are increasing right? And bowling averages are staying the same right?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah that's all fine. My point is that batting averages are increasing while bowling averages the same. Bolo (I think deleted his crticisim post) and Jedi came in too) - but either way, I am right. Batting averages are increasing.

I couldn't care about run outs.

Take allt he points from me you like Starfighter, you've earned them.

has to be trolling

But you realise batting averages are increasing right? And bowling averages are staying the same right?

jfc that is not mathematically possible

 

[Mr Miyagi]

has to be trolling



jfc that is not mathematically possible

Have you not seen the table of Starfighter's Jedi?

Decade	Bat	Bowl	Runout %	Dis/match
80	26.43	31	12.7	13.7
90	27.08	32.5	12.9	14.1
00	27.85	32.39	9.7	14.2
10	29.49	32.98	8.4	14.5

So Miyagi's contention that there are more dismissals a match is correct, but his contention that there have been more runouts is incorrect, so therefore the steadying effect is fairly easy to explain.

 

[cnerd123]

The run out thing isn't a big deal, that was just a guess, it was the insistence that batting averages and bowling averages were somehow, in defiance of all mathematics, varying independently that is mind-blowing.

His default reaction to having his views challenged, on any issue, is that it is up to the other person to prove him wrong. Even if his own initial stance took next to no thought to arrive to.

It's like if he feels something to be true, then therefore it is true, and he will assert so much until someone else challenges him sufficiently to change his mind. No burden on him to think things through thoroughly, do some research, crunch some numbers till he comes to his view. Nothing whatsoever. And he'll defend that viewpoint till the end.

When challenged, he could just say 'well yea, I've put next to no thought into this, you're could be right'. No. Instead he puts pressure on whoever challenged him to prove him wrong. On a stance he's taken after next to no thinking about it. Because to him, it's not his job to justify his claims. It's up to everyone else to explain to him why his claims are wrong, or why his opinion is flawed. He's not putting in any work to arrive there, yet we have to put in all the work to shift him from that.

It's remarkable.

 

[Bolo]

Before you too get stuck in another endless loop, Miyagi is saying the average of specialist batmen is increasing, not the team batting average. This is correct.

Miyagi, you are doing two things wrong here. Firstly you are bringing this up through disagreeing with a post of mine that that is talking about the team batting average, not the average of the specialists. You are wrong to say I'm incorrect, because you are changing the topic of discussion, not disputing my point. And secondly you are not communicating clearly that you are doing so. State what you mean in as many words. You can't shift the topic of conversation without mentioning that you are doing so and expect people to follow you.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

His default reaction to having his views challenged, on any issue, is that it is up to the other person to prove him wrong. Even if his own initial stance took next to no thought to arrive to.

It's like if he feels something to be true, then therefore it is true, and he will assert so much until someone else challenges him sufficiently to change his mind. No burden on him to think things through thoroughly, do some research, crunch some numbers till he comes to his view. Nothing whatsoever. And he'll defend that viewpoint till the end.

When challenged, he could just say 'well yea, I've put next to no thought into this, you're could be right'. No. Instead he puts pressure on whoever challenged him to prove him wrong. On a stance he's taken after next to no thinking about it. Because to him, it's not his job to justify his claims. It's up to everyone else to explain to him why his claims are wrong, or why his opinion is flawed. He's not putting in any work to arrive there, yet we have to put in all the work to shift him from that.

It's remarkable.

Oh goodie, Zoraz is back to discussing me personally. Let me know when he wants to talk cricket instead.