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Tendulkar/Hobbs vs Marshall/McGrath

The Higher Rated Pair


  • Total voters
    24

Johan

International Coach
You've not said anything that suggests you can discuss a topic so far though. Please try harder. It's a bit disappointing that you haven't learnt to do so after 3 years.
You've completely proven that your brain isn't advanced enough to discuss though, I am afraid there's no point in you trying and that it might be a lost cause for you, it's been 4 years, maybe it's time for you to call it quits.
 
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Xix2565

International Regular
You've completely proven that your brain isn't advanced enough to discuss though, I afraid there's no point in you trying and that it might be a lost cause for you, it's been 4 years, maybe it's time for you to call it quits.
Look, you flipping out is your problem not mine. That you clearly cannot understand and acknowledge this is disappointing, but nonetheless as things stand you haven't made a valid argument so far. You fixate on one point, refuse to acknowledge why people may think differently and then pretend like you've said something intelligent and profound when you haven't, and go on to lie about it for no real reason. It's puzzling behaviour even Subs and Kyear don't sink to, so consider me impressed with how low you can go.
 

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
I tend to agree with this. I am inclined to think though that Hobbs has the adaptability to make it through though.
You can say this about Bradman, and definitely Hutton.

There's no evidence that Hobbs ever faced the necessary k/mphs to ever really scare and force adjustments against high quality modern batsmen.
 

Johan

International Coach
Look, you flipping out is your problem not mine. That you clearly cannot understand and acknowledge this is disappointing, but nonetheless as things stand you haven't made a valid argument so far. You fixate on one point, refuse to acknowledge why people may think differently and then pretend like you've said something intelligent and profound when you haven't, and go on to lie about it for no real reason. It's puzzling behaviour even Subs and Kyear don't sink to, so consider me impressed with how low you can go.
You're the one who flipped out, I've stayed focus on the topic...strike one. I've made valid arguments and that's why you had to strawmann my points by bringing up topics never even integral to the actual debate on hand... strike two. I acknowledged why people think differently, infact, the whole time I've deviated from my own opinion to work with their opinion and all I've demanded is intellectual consistency, I've not gotten it. I've not lied about a single thing on the topic, that's simply you pulling a Donald Trump and making issues that don't exist...so another strike. and I've not gone low at all mate, I simply return the energy I get, you came in all aggressive but couldn't take it back because well, you're weak willed and that's frankly not my fault.
 

Johan

International Coach
You can say this about Bradman, and definitely Hutton.

There's no evidence that Hobbs ever faced the necessary k/mphs to ever really scare and force adjustments against high quality modern batsmen.
what's the evidence Viv or Gavaskar or Miandad faced anything above what Mohammad Shami can output? infact, I'll post the opposite!


Lillee barely hitting 130...tragic.
 

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah I just disagree with practically everything you said, I've seen Ted McDonald bowl, I've seen Bill O Reilly bowl, I've seen Herbert Sutcliffe bat, I've seen Everton Weekes bat. None of it looks any different than what was presented to me in the hootage of 1970s or 80s, doesn't look quicker, doesn't look strengthier or anything, it's just all different vibes.

simply put, Cricket objectively had more transformations between 1970 and 2025 then it did between 1915 and 1970, never was the game "figured" out, everything about the game changed in modern times more than in the relatively more conservative mid 1900s. Reinforced Seams, far bigger bats, far better health diets and routines, far better fitness standards, rise of Power hitting, Wobble Seam Spam by everyone and their mother, developement of shorter formats, WTC and so forth all came in the last 55 years, not the 55 years before.

so basically, if one wants to argue that they won't be able to adapt, that's fine and all, but frankly if the evolution argument is made and they do not consider Joe Root and Steven Smith far superior Batsmen to Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara, Viv Richards, Garfield Sobers and so forth then I simply cannot take that individual seriously, as their whole stance collapses on itself due to the burden of intellectual dishonesty, and therefore I'm not really interested in extending this discussion as I'm simply not able to take the premise and assertion seriously when it's practically just picking and choosing whose careers counts, and whose don't.
Ultimately we're all having to do that if we make an all-rounder list where WG Grace isn't at the very top.

But I'll respect your view on this. Personally also I don't think cricket is in stasis either, and generally modern players are gradually improving over the years, but I'll leave it here on whichever disagreements we have.
 

vidiq

State Regular
Grok x prefers McGrath/ Marshall over tendulkar/ Hobbs

To determine the "higher-rated pair" between Sachin Tendulkar/Jack Hobbs (batsmen) and Malcolm Marshall/Glenn McGrath (bowlers) as a neutral cricket fan, we need to evaluate their collective impact, records, and dominance in their respective domains. After analyzing their careers and influence on the game, I’ll pick one pair and provide reasoning for why they edge out the other.

Tendulkar and Hobbs (Batting Pair)

Sachin Tendulkar: 15,921 Test runs, 53.78 average, 51 centuries across 200 matches (1989–2013). His versatility across formats (18,426 ODI runs too) and conditions—be it bouncy Australian tracks or turning Indian pitches—is unmatched. He faced and conquered some of the best bowlers of his time, like Wasim Akram, Shane Warne, and McGrath himself.

Jack Hobbs: 5,410 Test runs, 56.94 average, 15 centuries in 61 matches (1908–1930), plus a first-class haul of 61,760 runs and 199 centuries. Hobbs dominated an era of uncovered pitches, rudimentary equipment, and early pace attacks, earning the nickname "The Master" for his technical brilliance and consistency.

Combined Strength: Together, they represent batting mastery across a century of cricket—Hobbs in the pre-modern era, Tendulkar in the modern. Their adaptability, longevity, and ability to handle diverse bowling attacks (pace, swing, spin) make them a formidable duo. They amassed 21,331 Test runs and 66 centuries combined, showcasing unparalleled run-scoring prowess.

Marshall and McGrath (Bowling Pair)

Malcolm Marshall: 376 Test wickets, 20.94 average, strike rate 46.7 in 81 matches (1978–1991). A West Indian pace icon, Marshall’s lethal combination of speed, swing, and bounce made him the most complete fast bowler of his generation. His average is the lowest among bowlers with over 300 Test wickets.

Glenn McGrath: 563 Test wickets, 21.64 average, strike rate 51.9 in 124 matches (1993–2007). The Australian legend’s relentless accuracy and subtle seam movement dismantled batting lineups, contributing heavily to Australia’s dominance in the late ’90s and early 2000s. He holds the record for most wickets by a fast bowler in Tests.

Combined Strength: This pair took 939 Test wickets at a combined average of 21.29, blending Marshall’s fiery aggression with McGrath’s surgical precision. They thrived in different eras but consistently terrorized batsmen, with Marshall leading the fearsome Windies attack and McGrath anchoring Australia’s golden age.

Choosing the Higher-Rated Pair: Marshall and McGrath

As a neutral cricket fan, I’d rate Malcolm Marshall and Glenn McGrath as the stronger pair over Tendulkar and Hobbs. Here’s why:

Dominance in Their Craft:

Bowlers have a tougher job—they must take 20 wickets to win a Test, often under pressure and fatigue. Marshall and McGrath didn’t just succeed; they dominated. Marshall’s 20.94 average and McGrath’s 563 wickets reflect their ability to consistently outwit top batsmen, including those of Tendulkar and Hobbs’ caliber.
Batsmen like Tendulkar and Hobbs, while exceptional, rely on bowlers faltering or conditions favoring them at times. Their brilliance is reactive to bowling quality, whereas Marshall and McGrath dictated terms proactively.

Impact on Matches:

Marshall was the spearhead of a West Indies side that went unbeaten in Test series for 15 years (1980–1995). McGrath was instrumental in Australia’s record 16 consecutive Test wins (1999–2001). Their wicket-taking ability directly translated to team success.
Tendulkar and Hobbs, despite their runs, couldn’t always turn matches single-handedly. India (Tendulkar) and England (Hobbs) had mixed team results during their careers, with Tendulkar’s Test win percentage at 39% and Hobbs’ era less dominant than the bowlers’ teams.

Head-to-Head Context:

Tendulkar vs. McGrath: Tendulkar averaged 29.05 against McGrath in Tests, showing McGrath often had the upper hand. Hobbs never faced either, but his era’s pace bowlers (e.g., Ted McDonald) were less lethal than Marshall’s swing or McGrath’s precision, suggesting the bowlers might’ve challenged him too.
The bowlers’ ability to neutralize top batsmen gives them an edge in a hypothetical matchup.

Rarity and Skill Ceiling:

Great bowlers like Marshall and McGrath are rarer than great batsmen. Their physical and mental endurance—delivering spell after spell—adds a layer of difficulty that tips the scales. Marshall’s all-round pace skillset and McGrath’s metronomic consistency are harder to replicate than even the batting genius of Tendulkar and Hobbs.

Conclusion

While Tendulkar and Hobbs are titans of batting, Marshall and McGrath stand out as the higher-rated pair due to their match-defining impact, statistical excellence, and the sheer difficulty of their craft. They didn’t just play the game—they controlled it, making them the ultimate cricketing force as a duo.
 

Xix2565

International Regular
You're the one who flipped out, I've stayed focus on the topic...strike one. I've made valid arguments and that's why you had to strawmann my points by bringing up topics never even integral to the actual debate on hand... strike two. I acknowledged why people think differently, infact, the whole time I've deviated from my own opinion to work with their opinion and all I've demanded is intellectual consistency, I've not gotten it. I've not lied about a single thing on the topic, that's simply you pulling a Donald Trump and making issues that don't exist...so another strike. and I've not gone low at all mate, I simply return the energy I get, you came in all aggressive but couldn't take it back because well, you're weak willed and that's frankly not my fault.
No, you definitely flipped out because you began to spam text that didn't address any points and made up strawmen. There is no denying that.
 

Johan

International Coach
No, you definitely flipped out because you began to spam text that didn't address any points and made up strawmen. There is no denying that.
Nope, you definitely flipped out as you falsely accused me of strawmans and lying, before lying and committing multiple strawmans yourself and not addressing an argument I made. There is no denying that. But maybe that's just your default mode.
 

shortpitched713

Cricketer Of The Year
Ok. Just remember that Root>Sobers is the reality now.
For what it's worth I place Sobers right at the border of what I consider "acceptably modern" where I'm confident their technique and style could probably translate.

Root's a hell of a player though, and I have no idea who would outplay who if the Sobers of old was just transported to now via magic. I guess the same could be said to varying degrees of uncertainty with Bradman and Hobbs also.
 

Xix2565

International Regular
Nope, you definitely flipped out as you falsely accused me of strawmans and lying, before lying and committing multiple strawmans yourself and not addressing an argument I made. There is no denying that. But maybe that's just your default mode.
We can read your posts, and see that you didn't make valid arguments. I'm not sure why you want to behave like this though.
 

Johan

International Coach
We can read your posts, and see that you didn't make valid arguments. I'm not sure why you want to behave like this though.
Tell that to the people constantly liking my posts and actually agreeing with me, anyone can read the debate and see how easily I put you on the leash little brother, no point coping about it.
 

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