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Tell me how a Kane Williamson is an ATG?

capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Most of Williamson's games overseas came in his first four years when he was bang average even at home, he was 19-23 at the time. Since 2014, he has averaged 72 at home but seldom gotten opportunities overseas, number of Tests he got in the big three and South Africa.

India 3
South Africa 2
Australia 5
England 6

The number in India and South Africa is too low for anything real to be extrapolated, two matches where he didn't even do badly and three matches split over 10 years say nothing. he has done well in Australia and below par in England (does have a hundred and the Southampton WTC final performance).

Comparatively, Smith in that timeframe has gotten 8 Tests in India, 16 Tests in England, 6 Tests in South Africa. Joe Root has 10 Tests in Australia, 14 Tests in India, 8 Tests in South Africa. Virat Kohli has 17 Tests in England, 14 Tests in Australia, 9 Tests in South Africa.

Other than those four, he has scored big runs in UAE and Pakistan where he has played 8 Tests and made two great hundreds on turners, in West Indies he got three Tests and won a series against a respectable attack. His home record is magnificent, an average of 72 over the last 11 years, winning games left and right and centre, he plays three in New Zealand and that's a difficult job and he has chased down great totals by himself. Green Mambas, fast wickets or even disintegrating late wickets he has made heaps of runs in New Zealand. All that doesn't go away because of one off bad games in India here and there.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
He definitely deserves a bit of scrutiny and criticism, his average is likely so high because he doesn't have to play too much overseas (imagine if Root didn't go to Australia every 5 years? or Kohli to England in 2014 or Australia in 2025?) and he has definitely underperformed in England and Sri Lanka even though he has gotten opportunities there even at his peak. But that is about it, it's not like he is some one dimensional player, since turning good he has done well in Australia, Pakistan, UAE and West Indies while struggling in England and Sri Lanka, with too little sample in India and South Africa. His away record only becomes an issue when compared to other elites like De Villiers when he doesn't have a large body of work overseas even in the limited opportunity he has had, but that's about it and it doesn't mean anything compared to guys who don't remotely come close to his level.

Williamson's struggles in England don't stem from some technical issues like Sehwag, Warner or Mahela overseas. Sehwag was never scoring consistently in pace friendly conditions because he had non existent footwork against pace, Mahela was never going to score regardless of opportunities at his peak because he couldn't play a good seamer/swing bowled in the 5th or the 6th stump line, Warner couldn't play anything that deviated, Williamson does all of that consistently and is just hit with contextless checklisting
 
M

Majestic

State 12th Man
Unless he fixes his away record in couple of countries, he can’t be regarded as an ATG. The Pakistani pitches in UAE or in Pakistan are as flat as they come and same goes for his performance in Australia in 2016 tour.

Not playing major teams away from home is a weak excuse when you are labelling someone as ATG. For that tag, he has to perform. He doesn’t need a 3 or 4 test series to perform against the likes of Pakistan or West Indies and it shouldn’t take much performing against the likes of England, India or Australia. Untill you do that, you are simply not doing enough.
 
M

Majestic

State 12th Man
Fuller Pilch said:
Then Yasir Shah must be a better legspinner than Shane Warne
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Why? does he average 20 there? Averages 85 in Aus, isn’t he? And 100+ in SA lol.

Just because Williamson hasn’t performed in SEIA and SL and heavily stat padded in UAE, WI and Zim, it doesn’t mean we start calling him ATG.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Majestic said:
Unless he fixes his away record in couple of countries, he can’t be regarded as an ATG. The Pakistani pitches in UAE or in Pakistan are as flat as they come and same goes for his performance in Australia in 2016 tour.

Not playing major teams away from home is a weak excuse when you are labelling someone as ATG. For that tag, he has to perform. He doesn’t need a 3 or 4 test series to perform against the likes of Pakistan or West Indies and it shouldn’t take much performing against the likes of England, India or Australia. Untill you do that, you are simply not doing enough.
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One of his hundreds in UAE came on a pitch where Craig White got a tenfer and Pakistan had Yasir, his 89 and 139 came against Yashir on a pitch where even William Somerville got wickets. Only his 200 came on a flat pitch and even then it was dry day 3 pitch.

His hundred at Gabba came when Australia ripped through the rest. Basically since becoming a good Batsman he has done well in UAE/Pakistan, West Indies and Australia while doing badly in England and Sri Lanka, South Africa and India don't have enough sample size and he averages 72 at home. That's it.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Majestic said:
Why? does he average 20 there? Averages 85 in Aus, isn’t he? And 100+ in SA lol.
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As I said earlier, Yasir took 116 wickets in 17 tests in the UAE (6.82 wickets per test).

It was very spin friendly and tough for batting. Ajaz Patel knocked over Pakistan for 170 to win a test there.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Most of Williamson's games overseas came in his first four years when he was bang average even at home, he was 19-23 at the time. Since 2014, he has averaged 72 at home but seldom gotten opportunities overseas, number of Tests he got in the big three and South Africa.

India 3
South Africa 2
Australia 5
England 6

The number in India and South Africa is too low for anything real to be extrapolated, two matches where he didn't even do badly and three matches split over 10 years say nothing. he has done well in Australia and below par in England (does have a hundred and the Southampton WTC final performance).
Click to expand...
He's a very good batsman. No one is saying he isn't. Has he been done a bit unfairly with the scheduling? Maybe, but there's an equal chance that if they were more tours scheduled to these countries, we talk about him much lower because there's much more proof. Again he's a very good batsman, but if you're going to label someone as an ATG, these excuses don't work imo.
As for technique, I don't think you can say it's not a similar issue to Sehwag or Mahela. Sehwag's issue was just more visible to our amateur eye, Mahela's issues were finer and again, had he not played as much in SENA, ppl might have made the same excuse for him. Going by technique, Babar shouldn't be struggling as much either as he is. But he does, Williamson has and that's all that matters really.
 
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