State & Future of New Zealand Cricket

[Matt52]

Maybe not Taylor but probably ahead of Ryder and Fulton at the moment and in the future there will be spots open with retirement of Astle, Fleming and Styris

I dont like the idea of Ryder, Vincent and Fulton etc just coming in when Fleming and Astle have retired.
imo, the NZ side (one day) has only ever had two decent batsmen that have consistently been there while others have come and gone. Namely, Astle and Fleming. If we had another Astle and another Fleming we would be a much better side, and to my mind, Taylor, and Ryder are those two stalwarts for the next ten years.

If we just wait until Fleming and Astle have retired then we will still have a side with two decent batsmen and a bunch of bit part players. Thankfully, Taylor is already in there, but Ryder should be in as well.

Its only going to be a year or so before Astle retires and Fleming after that so why cant we have 4 quality batsmen in our top four?Put Ryder in now with Fleming and Astle and Taylor and have a quality top four for once in NZ crickets history., just for a year or two, but it would be a fun year.

 

[NZTailender]

Fleming's not 33 yet, is he? You talk as if he's on deaths door.

 

[Complicated]

Whats the story with Greg Hay?

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/269111.html

Nice start to a career.

 

[NZTailender]

Whats the story with Greg Hay?

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/269111.html

Nice start to a career.

Hope he can keep those averages up for 10 years, tbh.

Could do with improving his Twenty/20 though.

 

[Perm]

I think New Zealand has a bit of depth and after the world cup expect to see some of the following names to come in the fray:

Graeme Aldridge - Bowl (pace)
Jesse Ryder - Bat
Tim McIntosh - Bat (how old is he?)
Nathan McCullum - Bowl (Spin)
Bruce Martin - Bowl (Spin)
Peter Ingram - Bat (I dont know much about him)
Hamish Bennet - Bowl (Fast)
Jamie How
Greg Hay - Bat (1st domestic season but hey looks reasonable)
Bevan Diamante - Bowl (Pace)
Mark Orchard - All-rounder (Spin I think)
Richard Jones - Bat
Rob Nicol - Bat
Bradley Scott - Bowl (pace)

Some people will disagree but yeah. I dont know the age of a lot of these players though

McIntosh is only 27 and if he keeps performing for Auckland in the State Championship would have to be up there as an opener when Craig Cumming retires. Him and Jamie How should be our opening combination in the coming years, after Cumming has retired (He's 33 so he won't keep going for that long I don't think). Also, Diamanti's first name is Brendon.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but Graeme Aldridge and Richard Jones are quite senior, over the 30 mark. Scott and Diamanti have been playing for probably 4 or 5 season's now and are developing into good bowlers, but I think that is all they will ever be. Not good enough to be international standard I don't think, not with a few pacers infront of them at the moment. Maybe in a few years time but defiantely not now.

Nathan McCullum and Bruce Martin are both good spinners and also handy with the bat lower down the order (very similar to Vettori) and of the two, Martin would be the better bowler while McCullum is a better batsman and fielder. They are down the pecking order though, behind Vettori and Patel and only get selected in the 30-man preliminary squads as a gesture. Same goes with Mark Orchard, he's not likely to play international cricket but will always be a good player for ND.

I'll confess to not knowing much about Hamish Bennett and Peter Ingram but they have potential and if they keep turning in good performances then they could become international players. Greg Hay is also pretty new to the State Championship and State Shield so let him grow as a player before we make judgements.

The other's on that list (Ryder, How and Nicol) are going to form the core of our batting lineup with Ross Taylor and Peter Fulton in the future. How hasn't proven himself at either test or ODI level but will continue to mature both as a batsman and a leader with CD. Ryder is unlucky not to have played for the Black Caps yet and I think we all realise that John Bracewell doesn't like him and he probably won't get a go while he is the coach (hopefully for not much longer). I have seen Rob Nicol bat a couple of times and he has impressed me, has a solid average of around 37-38 which should grow to over 40 as he get's more experienced and I see him as a future New Zealand representative.

That's all in the meantime, I'll think some more and then keep going.

 

[meatspx]

I'm getting sick of this pom on Radio Sport, practically accusing Bond of having a mental illness and being too soft.

It's pretty obvious that Bond's back went a few years ago and he's on borrowed time. Three stress fractures before the age of 25 isn't it? Chronic pain....in 10-15 years time he might not be able to play with his kids in the backyard because his back will be gone, I wonder if he will be able to wake up in bed without pain.

It's not his fault that his back can't handle the workload of blwoing 145km/h +, but yet people in NZ (not anywhere else) still persist in calling him 'soft'. It's starting to annoy me... fat-old gits ringing up Radio Sport with their large guts who probably havent bowled a cricket ball in 10 years comparing Bond to Hadlee and bringing into question whether he actually has an injury It's b/s.

Hopefully Bond with make it to the WC playing every second game, then after that he probably should retire after the next sign of back pain.

 

[Perm]

To be fair, alot of his "injuries" are things like calf strains, hamstring twinges and I can't blame them for criticising him. Take for example Scott Styris, who has a crook back and has always been fairly injury prone. He was unable to make the flight to Australia because of a "slight calf strain", he is one of my favourite Black Caps but that just reeks of softness to me.

 

[meatspx]

When you have a serious injury and suffer a long lay-off, other muscles have not been stretched/used and are more likely to be injured during a comeback.

Similar to what has happened to Vaughn with his hammy.

 

[Fiery]

I'm getting sick of this pom on Radio Sport, practically accusing Bond of having a mental illness and being too soft.

It's pretty obvious that Bond's back went a few years ago and he's on borrowed time. Three stress fractures before the age of 25 isn't it? Chronic pain....in 10-15 years time he might not be able to play with his kids in the backyard because his back will be gone, I wonder if he will be able to wake up in bed without pain.

It's not his fault that his back can't handle the workload of blwoing 145km/h +, but yet people in NZ (not anywhere else) still persist in calling him 'soft'. It's starting to annoy me... fat-old gits ringing up Radio Sport with their large guts who probably havent bowled a cricket ball in 10 years comparing Bond to Hadlee and bringing into question whether he actually has an injury It's b/s.

Hopefully Bond with make it to the WC playing every second game, then after that he probably should retire after the next sign of back pain.

That's funny, I was just thinking how much I agree with Miles Davis. Shane Bond has proven time and time again that he is a soft hypochondriac. I've even heard Nathan Astle say Bond's injuries are all in his head. He definitely needs to harden up. Dennis Lillee played through injury for most of his career.

 

[Perm]

True, but then that comes back to muscle stretching and development while you are injured. Vaughan would have done heaps of work on his knee but would've known that his hamstrings and calves weren't going to be 100% and should've worked on them aswell as his knee.

 

[Perm]

That's funny, I was just thinking how much I agree with Miles Davis. Shane Bond has proven time and time again that he is a soft hypochondriac. I've even heard Nathan Astle say Bond's injuries are all in his head.

I don't think Astle has quite said it like that.

 

[Fiery]

I don't think Astle has quite said it like that.

Maybe not word for word but definitely words to that effect. I can't recall who he said it to or where though. I might have read it on this forum. Maybe someone can remind me

 

[Richard]

Fleming's not 33 yet, is he? You talk as if he's on deaths door.

In Tests he should still have plenty in the tank but surely this World Cup will see the closure of his ODI career? And Astle likewise?

 

[Richard]

Maybe not Taylor but probably ahead of Ryder and Fulton at the moment and in the future there will be spots open with retirement of Astle, Fleming and Styris

Fulton whose domstic-OD and ODI records are far better than McCullum's (averages both up by 10 runs)? Yer mad!

Granted, he's the man-in-possession ahead of Ryder at the moment but if Ryder really is an opener it seems to make no sense whatsoever that he's not already played for the Black Caps with the likes of How getting in instead.

 

[Fiery]

Fulton whose domstic-OD and ODI records are far better than McCullum's (averages both up by 10 runs)? Yer mad!

Granted, he's the man-in-possession ahead of Ryder at the moment but if Ryder really is an opener it seems to make no sense whatsoever that he's not already played for the Black Caps with the likes of How getting in instead.

Fulton's already in the side anyway so I wouldn't need to leave him out for McCullum

 

[Richard]

You said were it to come down to a straight shoot-off between the two of them with one place available, you'd go for McCullum.

 

[Fiery]

You said were it to come down to a straight shoot-off between the two of them with one place available, you'd go for McCullum.

That's a tough one. I would probably have McCullum ahead of Fulton if choosing an ODI team and Fulton in a test match if I had to choose between the two

 

[NZTailender]

In Tests he should still have plenty in the tank but surely this World Cup will see the closure of his ODI career? And Astle likewise?

Will most likely be his last world cup, but I can see him retiring in the next ODI series at home, and Vettori taking up captaincy.

But if possible (and fitness willing) I'd like to see him continue on until he's 36/37.

 

[Richard]

What's the point in playing ODIs if you're not going to make the next WC?

 

[Richard]

That's a tough one. I would probably have McCullum ahead of Fulton if choosing an ODI team and Fulton in a test match if I had to choose between the two

I simply cannot believe that, given that Fulton is patently (at the current time at least) the better batsman, in both game-forms at that.