Significance of the 'second innings denial' effect.

[TheJediBrah]

You either agree with it or you don't.

Pick one.

I really don't care which you do.

Either way. I have already formed an opinion of you, as have everyone else reading this thread.

So don't worry about personalities, it is far too late for that.

I'm right. Or I'm wrong.

Say I'm wrong - I hit you the same logic and more facts.

Why are you talking about personalities? You're losing it mate, a silly little cricket theory isn't worth the amount of angst it's clearly causing you.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Why are you talking about personalities? You're losing it mate, a silly little cricket theory isn't worth the amount of angst it's clearly causing you.

No angst here. You're nothing to me. I am a lawyer and a scholar. I disagree with very smart people (some I know and like) for a living. It is not personal.

 

[Starfighter]

None of those other comparisons are meaningful. It's entirely speculation. We have statistical evidence regarding McGrath and hadlee and it was a perfect comparison.Thats why it was focused on.

Your theory is either obvious and irrelevant, or demonstrably wrong, depending on which you decide it to be at any given time. It's pointlesd to discuss it with you.

Just give up, he can never be wrong in his own mind.

It's funny. I started this thread so other people could express their opinions and avoid the ****show, and hoping that the more stats savvy posters might be able to shed even a hint of guidance on it. Instead all the stats types have been very absent and we're just left with this. People always seem to like to split hairs on stats elsewhere but a genuinely interesting concept comes up and we're left with someone who clearly has no idea about anything scientific whatsoever.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Just give up, he can never be wrong in his own mind.

It's funny. I started this thread so other people could express their opinions and avoid the ****show, and hoping that the more stats savvy posters might be able to shed even a hint of guidance on it. Instead all the stats types have been very absent and we're just left with this. People always seem to like to split hairs on stats elsewhere but a genuinely interesting concept comes up and we're left with someone who clearly has no idea about anything scientific whatsoever.

Take Hadlee -

he bowls on average 29 overs in the first innings per game;
he bowls on average 29 overs in the second innings per game;
he bowls on average 22 overs in the third innings per game;
and just 8.8 overs in the fourth.

Ave 42 per game

He career averages a wicket every 8 overs. So is this significant to his wpm?

That is significant.

Marshall
bowls 20 overs on average in the first
bowls 21 overs on average in the second
bowls 19 overs on average in the third
bowls 14.7 overs on average in the fourth

Ave 36 per game

The effect can be seen, but at a far reduced rate.

McGrath
bowls 22.4 overs in the first
bowls 23.3 overs in the second
bowls 17.7 in the third
bowls 15.8 in the fourth

Ave 39 overs per game

Murali

bowls 33.3 overs in the first
bowls 34 overs in the second
bowls 31 overs in the third
bowls 24 overs in the fourth

ave 55

Streak
Bowls 27 in 1st
Bowls 26 in 2nd
Bowls 16 in 3rd
Bowls 8.25 in 4th

ave 35 overs per game

Nothing at all *nods*

The only thing that matters is wickets per match Strang and Bracewell just stole Hadlee and Streak's wickets :P We all know how strong NZ with Bracewell and Zimbabwe with Strang were :P


If you want 4thinnings performances I will privide them happily.


Marshall

309.3 4th innings deliveries /2930.4 overs
11% 4th
at 17.66(20.95)rpw at SR45.29(46.77)
2/22
5w split 9%

McGrath
856.3/4874.5 or 103/563
18%
at 19.5(21.64) at SR49.89(51.96)
5/29
5w split 17%

Murali
888.3/7339.5
12%
at 21.02(22.73) at SR50(55)
5w split 7/67 10.4%

Hadlee
202/3461
6%
at 15.63(22.30) 39.4(51)
5w split between 2/36 5.6%
wickets in 4th 7% of career
32 wickets in 24 games!

Sreak

65 2259overs all 198 4th
102w
18 4th
28.14 ave
25 4th
05w in 4th

 

[TheJediBrah]

Just give up, he can never be wrong in his own mind.

It's been pretty clear from the get go. I don't think there's any point pursuing this. There's been no progress this whole time and I'm actually genuinely worried that a certain someone's going to end up increasingly unhinged.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

It's been pretty clear from the get go. I don't think there's any point pursuing this. There's been no progress this whole time and I'm actually genuinely worried that a certain someone's going to end up increasingly unhinged.

I've already taken the doors off here. Forget about the hinges. Lets talk about pathways.:P


Which way you going JediBrah?

My way or the highway?

You're either with me, or you're asking for explanatory pastes of why you were before :P

 

[Starfighter]

It's been pretty clear from the get go. I don't think there's any point pursuing this. There's been no progress this whole time and I'm actually genuinely worried that a certain someone's going to end up increasingly unhinged.

Well, I'm getting pretty unhinged myself, although this thread is not really the cause (a couple of uni exams I'm a serious chance of failing. That's why I kept posting here, distraction). But I get who you mean.


Why do (apparent) adults behave like that? We've just had the Firebreaker thing. What do they get out of it? But that's been asked a million times I suppose.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well, I'm getting pretty unhinged myself, although this thread is not really the cause (a couple of uni exams I'm a serious chance of failing. That's why I kept posting here, distraction). But I get who you mean.


Why do (apparent) adults behave like that? We've just had the Firebreaker thing. What do they get out of it? But that's been asked a million times I suppose.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you studying?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Well, I'm getting pretty unhinged myself, although this thread is not really the cause (a couple of uni exams I'm a serious chance of failing. That's why I kept posting here, distraction). But I get who you mean.


Why do (apparent) adults behave like that? We've just had the Firebreaker thing. What do they get out of it? But that's been asked a million times I suppose.

I know what you're suffering. I remember teaching stressed out contract law students years ago all wanting to out do each other and get into the big firms. Good luck with your exams sonny.

 

[Starfighter]

If you don't mind my asking, what are you studying?

Earth sciences. I've got no idea where I'm gonna get a job ffs, but it's been something I've been interested in for many years. I just haven't been able to absorb the details of anything at all at the moment because I've got other things (okay, one thing) on my mind all the time and just can't think, so I spend time on here, or digging up old newsreels and posting them. I just want things to end.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Earth sciences. I've got no idea where I'm gonna get a job ffs, but it's been something I've been interested in for many years. I just haven't been able to absorb the details of anything at all at the moment because I've got other things on my mind all the time and just can't think, so I spend time on here, or digging up old newsreels and posting them. I just want things to end.

Get a ph.D and go into forensics. You'll be sorted.

I remember a geological case where the engineers did 1/4 (at best - I am being generous - I had to write their brief!) of the work of the lawyers at twice, if not way more, of the price.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Earth sciences. I've got no idea where I'm gonna get a job ffs, but it's been something I've been interested in for many years. I just haven't been able to absorb the details of anything at all at the moment because I've got other things (okay, one thing) on my mind all the time and just can't think, so I spend time on here, or digging up old newsreels and posting them. I just want things to end.

**** that's interesting. If you can get a job or funding to do some research or something somewhere interesting I'd envy you. Always been fascinated by natural disasters, tectonic plates and rock formation etc. Then there's always a need for mining and farming expertise in Aus. Good luck.

 

[Stapel]

Interesting theory this.

A bit off-topic, but somewhat of a same question: Does having in-form quality fellow batsmen in the top order, have a beneficial effect on the personal average?

I can see why Cook's average has been lower, since he has lost AS for 12 different failing opening partners. Or JT, KP & IB. for the likes of Malan, Ballance or Vince.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

**** that's interesting. If you can get a job or funding to do some research or something somewhere interesting I'd envy you. Always been fascinated by natural disasters, tectonic plates and rock formation etc. Then there's always a need for mining and farming expertise in Aus. Good luck.

Well you have to like rocks first to find it interesting :P

A rock is a rock. If demand and supply matter go into dentistry or pharmacy. We all have teeth and take drugs. But can you handle the boredom?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Interesting theory this.

A bit off-topic, but somewhat of a same question: Does having in-form quality fellow batsmen in the top order, have a beneficial effect on the personal average?

I can see why Cook's average has been lower, since he has lost AS for 12 different failing opening partners. Or JT, KP & IB. for the likes of Malan, Ballance or Vince.

Not average, only bpm and wpm. Average is effected only by fellow bowlers taking wickets at both ends. Bowling more balls to new batsmen is different to bowling more balls at set batsmen.

it is an independent variable of an independent variable.

Where you're right is the 4th innings duie to pitch wear and tear (bat first and all that) - (second team innings drop for batting and bowling averages).

But that is a whole new debate that I'm keen to start once this is put to bed.

I don't blame Cook on Anderson's results, but Cook effects Anderson :P The relationships are independent.Batsmen influence when bowlers bowl and for how long, batsmen do not largely influence bowlers taking more wickets (unless its the 4th).

 

[Starfighter]

**** that's interesting. If you can get a job or funding to do some research or something somewhere interesting I'd envy you. Always been fascinated by natural disasters, tectonic plates and rock formation etc. Then there's always a need for mining and farming expertise in Aus. Good luck.

The problem is there's no jobs for it around here and spending a lot of time on a mine site is not appealing to me, having already done some. I'm be more attracted to the research or exploration/field side but that's much harder to get into. Either do a PhD, which I'm not sure I could handle, or 'needs x years experience' sort of stuff. And there's one or two other things I wish to do in life that might be hard to fit in there. And I keep thinking about that all the time.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well you have to like rocks first to find it interesting :P

A rock is a rock. If demand and supply matter go into dentistry or pharmacy. We all have teeth and take drugs. But can you handle the boredom?

Everything's boring when it's your job

The trick is to find a place where you can get paid really well, not do too much work, and pass the time by chatting to co workers and eating free afternoon teas

 

[Mr Miyagi]

The problem is there's no jobs for it around here and spending a lot of time on a mine site is not appealing to me, having already done some. I'm be more attracted to the research or exploration/field side but that's much harder to get into. Either do a PhD, which I'm not sure I could handle, or 'needs x years experience' sort of stuff. And there's one or two other things I wish to do in life that might be hard to fit in there. And I keep thinking about that all the time.

Do the phD. Srsly. Forensics is a good life.

My sister's best friend married a geologist phD in forensics. #goodlife.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Everything's boring when it's your job

The trick is to find a place where you can get paid really well, not do too much work, and pass the time by chatting to co workers and eating free afternoon teas

Yes and no, but I agree with your sentiment.

 

[Starfighter]

Interesting theory this.

A bit off-topic, but somewhat of a same question: Does having in-form quality fellow batsmen in the top order, have a beneficial effect on the personal average?

I can see why Cook's average has been lower, since he has lost AS for 12 different failing opening partners. Or JT, KP & IB. for the likes of Malan, Ballance or Vince.

I think Cook's average has been lower because he's been not as good. For example George Headley rocked in a very weak team.