Rahul Dravid vs Kevin Pietersen (talent)

[sayon basak]

That's really debatable. Some people might not be born with it.

KEVIN. PIETERSEN. WASN'T. BORN. WITH. A BAT.

 

[Thala_0710]

For sake of a debate

Is the inability to defend really talent or just a lack of discipline dressed up as flair?

If you don't have the ability to defend, you can't really be much talented

 

[subshakerz]

For sake of a debate

Is the inability to defend really talent or just a lack of discipline dressed up as flair?

It can be either lack of talent or lack of discipline.

You might lack the ability to even pick the ball at that speed. Or you might have the ability but you never trained for what defensive stroke to play or have that muscle memory.

 

[subshakerz]

KEVIN. PIETERSEN. WASN'T. BORN. WITH. A BAT.

Ugh. As in innate self discipline versus it being taught and enforced.

 

[Thala_0710]

This part from 8:40 to 10:40, where he describes when he was fully focused and in the zone, peak Mitchell Johnson on a green wkt feels like an 'underarm bowler' to him, and that boring bowlers were of a bigger threat to him... That's talent
I reckon if you ask viv and lara or even aravinda, they'd give similar responses

 

[subshakerz]

If you don't have the ability to defend, you can't really be much talented

This is obvious. We are comparing the highest level of cricketers who already have the basic talent and training to achieve consistent runs in into cricket yet they are pretending it's as if we are saying Dravid has no natural ability.

 

[sayon basak]

So every bat could play fast bowlers like Viv if they just trained hard enough?

Absolutely. According to people like you, Don wasn't talented. Go look at what he did.

 

[DrWolverine]

So every bat could play fast bowlers like Viv if they just trained hard enough?

In his autobiography, Viv Richards credited his comfort against fast bowling to growing up in the West Indies where facing raw pace was a daily reality and survival meant standing your ground or getting hurt. While it’s fair to ask why others from the region didn’t reach his level, the more fascinating question is whether he would have developed the same fearless game had he been born in India or Sri Lanka where pitches were slower and the threats very different.

 

[subshakerz]

In his autobiography, Viv Richards credited his comfort against fast bowling to growing up in the West Indies where facing raw pace was a daily reality and survival meant standing your ground or getting hurt. While it’s fair to ask why others from the region didn’t reach his level, the more fascinating question is whether he would have developed the same fearless game had he been born in India or Sri Lanka where pitches were slower and the threats very different.

Let me cut to the chase, Viv yes trained and had a good environment but the overwhelming reason for this success was the combo of exceptional reflexes, eyesight and power that others didn't have.

 

[sayon basak]

In his autobiography, Viv Richards credited his comfort against fast bowling to growing up in the West Indies where facing raw pace was a daily reality and survival meant standing your ground or getting hurt. While it’s fair to ask why others from the region didn’t reach his level, the more fascinating question is whether he would have developed the same fearless game had he been born in India or Sri Lanka where pitches were slower and the threats very different.

But I heard that he was born with a Jumbo bat and Chewing gum in his mouth.

 

[subshakerz]

Absolutely. According to people like you, Don wasn't talented. Go look at what he did.

lol if you think everyone can become Viv you are deluding yourself.

And Bradman was likely the most talented of all but it's hard to say without more footage.

 

[Thala_0710]

In his autobiography, Viv Richards credited his comfort against fast bowling to growing up in the West Indies where facing raw pace was a daily reality and survival meant standing your ground or getting hurt. While it’s fair to ask why others from the region didn’t reach his level, the more fascinating question is whether he would have developed the same fearless game had he been born in India or Sri Lanka where pitches were slower and the threats very different.

Sachin and Aravinda were born on those same wickets, Sachin as a teenager adapted to the paciest and bounciest track at Perth, and scored a brilliant ton there. At 18, as good as his technique and practice was, that's more natural talent. What he achieved in the rest of his career was his talent combined with discipline, mental strength, physical fitness etc. But the ATG talent was there to see even that day. If he flopped the rest of his career, the talent wouldn't reduce. Prithvi Shaw is one of the most talented batsman around, if he is/isn't able to get his career on track, I don't think the first statement could be really challenged

 

[DrWolverine]

That's really debatable. Some people might not be born with it.

Vinod Kambli & kite story

By Ramakant Achrekar

I remember reading a story about a young Vinod Kambli where during a net session he suddenly ran off mid innings to chase a kite that had floated by. Ramakant Achrekar who was his coach asked him if he had come to play cricket or chase kites. He said this was what happened to him in real life. Kambli had all the talent in the world but his focus would drift. That kite, in a way came to represent the distractions he couldn’t resist. Ramakant Achrekar often said that what truly set his other student Sachin Tendulkar apart wasn’t just his talent but his unwavering focus and constant hunger to improve. He said talent is common but when paired with a constant obsession to improve every day made the biggest difference.

 

[sayon basak]

lol if you think everyone can become Viv you are deluding yourself.

And Bradman was likely the most talented of all but it's hard to say without more footage.

Why? From footages, Bradman just looks like a normal guy, not much innovative, turned singles into doubles and doubles into triples.

 

[subshakerz]

Vinod Kambli & kite story

By Ramakant Achrekar

I remember reading a story about a young Vinod Kambli where during a net session he suddenly ran off mid innings to chase a kite that had floated by. Ramakant Achrekar who was his coach asked him if he had come to play cricket or chase kites. He said this was what happened to him in real life. Kambli had all the talent in the world but his focus would drift. That kite, in a way came to represent the distractions he couldn’t resist. Ramakant Achrekar often said that what truly set his other student Sachin Tendulkar apart wasn’t just his talent but his unwavering focus and constant hunger to improve. He said talent is common but when paired with a constant obsession to improve every day made the biggest difference.

Yes. It's not just Sachin himself but around him was an incredibly facilitative environment to nurture his ambition.

 

[DrWolverine]

Let me cut to the chase, Viv yes trained and had a good environment but the overwhelming reason for this success was the combo of exceptional reflexes, eyesight and power that others didn't have.

I accept.

Talent + Hard Work + Luck or God’s Grace = Success

 

[subshakerz]

Why? From footages, Bradman just looks like a normal guy, not much innovative, turned singles into doubles and doubles into triples.

I mean the footage quality isnt great so I don't know how much time he has playing bowlers.

He also could have had unusual stamina for his time. Again hard to say.

 

[Thala_0710]

Vinod Kambli & kite story

By Ramakant Achrekar

I remember reading a story about a young Vinod Kambli where during a net session he suddenly ran off mid innings to chase a kite that had floated by. Ramakant Achrekar who was his coach asked him if he had come to play cricket or chase kites. He said this was what happened to him in real life. Kambli had all the talent in the world but his focus would drift. That kite, in a way came to represent the distractions he couldn’t resist. Ramakant Achrekar often said that what truly set his other student Sachin Tendulkar apart wasn’t just his talent but his unwavering focus and constant hunger to improve. He said talent is common but when paired with a constant obsession to improve every day made the biggest difference.

That's the point we're trying to make. The better career is decided by talent + all these above mentioned factors and more. But I wouldn't say, focusing on cricket is a natural talent

 

[subshakerz]

I accept.

Talent + Hard Work + Luck or God’s Grace = Success

Of course and every successful international cricketer has these. But it's more what's the level of each factor not the absence of one.

 

[subshakerz]

But I wouldn't say, focusing on cricket is a natural talent

It's not in that it can be gained. You can have natural willpower or cultivate it to that level.