Pro Cycling Thread

[Matteh]

Yeah spot on with the translation. Reckon he should still be racing or should get banned for it? I'm not really too fussed about it because it was 11 years ago, but he has got away with it if you take that view basically. Pretty sure that if Rijs was doping in 1996 then Ullrich was in 1997 though.

 

[Craig]

Yeah spot on with the translation. Reckon he should still be racing or should get banned for it? I'm not really too fussed about it because it was 11 years ago, but he has got away with it if you take that view basically. Pretty sure that if Rijs was doping in 1996 then Ullrich was in 1997 though.

I have a lot more respect for Zabel, then say Landis, Basso ("I was going to dope, but I didn't. And he got me at a moment of weakness" - despite winning the Giro by over 9 minutes , is there something else your not saying Ivan?) or Michele Scarponi.

I think it is very much a case of double standards from ASO boss Patrice Clerc saying he doesn't want Bjarne Riis at the Tour, despite a certain Richard Virenque being allowed to start and was and is a national hero, yet somebody like Armstrong is condemmed for no reason. Do you read the letters section on cyclingnews? Some good ideas being passed.

 

[Matteh]

Bjarne Riis has been asked to give back his jersey, so does that make the guy who was 2nd the new winner of 1996 and if i remember correctly wasn't that Ulrich?

 

[Matteh]

In fact looking at it:

1st Riis - doped
2nd Ulrich - basically has, but hasn't admitted it yet
3rd Virenque - doped
4th Laurent Dufaux - was in Festina, therefore basically doped
So therefore 5th placed Peter Luttenberger is the moral winner of the 1996 TdF?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

In fact looking at it:

1st Riis - doped
2nd Ulrich - basically has, but hasn't admitted it yet
3rd Virenque - doped
4th Laurent Dufaux - was in Festina, therefore basically doped
So therefore 5th placed Peter Luttenberger is the moral winner of the 1996 TdF?

Would think Piepoli myself. (17th)

 

[Craig]

Looks like there could be no winner.

And at this rate would Bobby Julich end up the winner of the 1998 Tour or at least runner up instead?

 

[Matteh]

Absolutely insane when you look at those that have been accused or have admitted doping what the results are like without them.

 

[Matteh]

1997:
1st Ulrich - accused
2nd Virenque - doped
3rd Pantani - doped
4th Abraham Olano - winner?

1998
1st Pantani - doped
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Julich - winner?

1999
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Zuelle - Festing in 1998
3rd Escartin - winner?

2000
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Beloki - Puerto
4th Moreau - Festina 98
5th Heras - doped
6th Virenque - doped
7th Botero - Puerto
8th Escartin - winner?

2001
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Beloki - Puerto
4th Kivilev - Festina 98
5th Gonzalez de Galdeano - accused
6th Francois Simon - winner?

2002
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Beloki - Puerto
3rd Rumsas - doped
4th Botero - Puerto
5th Gonzalez de Galdeano - accused
6th Azevedo - winner?

2003
1st Armstrong
2nd Ulrich
3rd Vinokourov - winner?

2004
1st Armstrong
2nd Kloden - winner?

2005
1st Armstrong
2nd Ulrich
3rd Basso - Puerto
4th Mancebo - Puerto
5th Vinokourov - winner?

2006
1st Landis - accused
2nd Pereiro - accused
3rd Kloeden - winner?


Total non doping linked wins:
Vinokourov - 2
Kloeden - 2
Escartin - 2
Julich - 1
Olano - 1
Azevedo - 1
Simon - 1

 

[Craig]

Absolutely insane when you look at those that have been accused or have admitted doping what the results are like without them.

Yeah.

Just look at Paris-Nice this year, when Popovych nearly got the race lead and Gerolsteiner rode like crazy to reduce the time gap and the next four riders have to abandon because that were that tired, and in the end it was only Davide Rebellin left, so it was a fore gone conclusion going into the last stage that Alberto Contador would win.

A former Festina ride Christophe Bassons was the only clean rider (and he took nothing, including vitamins which have always been legal) at Festina AFAIK and he often commented about how hard it was with the speeds they were racing at, and he was risking his own health trying to keep up (you might remember he was the guy hounded out of the sport of his anti-doping attitiude and comments) and a few guys noted that it was like they were racing against motorbikes.

 

[Craig]

1997:
1st Ulrich - accused
2nd Virenque - doped
3rd Pantani - doped
4th Abraham Olano - winner?

1998
1st Pantani - doped
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Julich - winner?

1999
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Zuelle - Festing in 1998
3rd Escartin - winner?

2000
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Beloki - Puerto
4th Moreau - Festina 98
5th Heras - doped
6th Virenque - doped
7th Botero - Puerto
8th Escartin - winner?

2001
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Beloki - Puerto
4th Kivilev - Festina 98
5th Gonzalez de Galdeano - accused
6th Francois Simon - winner?

2002
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Beloki - Puerto
3rd Rumsas - doped
4th Botero - Puerto
5th Gonzalez de Galdeano - accused
6th Azevedo - winner?

2003
1st Armstrong
2nd Ulrich
3rd Vinokourov - winner?

2004
1st Armstrong
2nd Kloden - winner?

2005
1st Armstrong
2nd Ulrich
3rd Basso - Puerto
4th Mancebo - Puerto
5th Vinokourov - winner?

2006
1st Landis - accused
2nd Pereiro - accused
3rd Kloeden - winner?


Total non doping linked wins:
Vinokourov - 2
Kloeden - 2
Escartin - 2
Julich - 1
Olano - 1
Azevedo - 1
Simon - 1

That is amazing. And I guess Gilberto Simoni would be the winner of last year's Giro after Basso and Jose Enrique Gutiterrez (the guy is built like a rugby player) were named in OP.

Have at look at the Vuelta -

1999:

Jan Ullrich - accused
Igor Glonalez de Galdeano - winner?
Robero Heras - doping

2000:

Roberto Heras - doping
Angel Casero - winner? (he did win in 2001)
Pavel Tonkov

2002:

1 Aitor Gonzalez - Doping
2 Roberto Heras - Doping
3 Joseba Beloki - OP
4 Oscar Sevilla - OP
5 Iban Mayo - winner?

2003:

1 - Roberto Heras - doping
2 - Isidro Nozal - OP
3 - Ajelandro Valverde - winner?

2004:

1 - Roberot Heras
2 - Santi Perez - Doping
3 - Francisco Mancebo - doping
4 - Ajelandro Valverde - winner?

 

[Matteh]

That is amazing. And I guess Gilberto Simoni would be the winner of last year's Giro after Basso and Jose Enrique Gutiterrez (the guy is built like a rugby player) were named in OP.

Have at look at the Vuelta -

1999:
Jan Ullrich - accused
Igor Glonalez de Galdeano - winner?
Robero Heras - doping

I've got him down as being accused.

 

[Craig]

I've got him down as being accused.

That is correct

Well how about <insert rider> then?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

3rd Escartin - winner?

Escartin rode for Kelme, the same team as Jesús Manzano, who collapsed during a stage and claims he was forced to take substances from the team from 2000 to 2003. Fuentes has been a team doctor for Kelme too. Would not include him on any list of dope-free riders.

That leaves

4th Dufaux - Festina 98
5th Casero - OP-accused
6th Olano - possible winner.

And in 2000

9th Mancebo - OP-accused
10th Nardello - possible winner, but rode for Mapei, the same team as Museeuw (who was clearly doped beyond all imagination)
11th Beltran - see Nardello
12th Hervé - Who?! domestique for Virenque who had already served one suspension...surely they weren't daft enough to try it again.

 

[Craig]

Wasn't Olano riding for Mapei back then, or was it ONCE?

BTW Santiago Botero is set to win the TdF with 1 stage left in PCM

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Wasn't Olano riding for Mapei back then, or was it ONCE?

BTW Santiago Botero is set to win the TdF with 1 stage left in PCM

ONCE.

at Botero winning anything more than a week. Should have recuperation of 55 imo.

 

[Craig]

It was the TT that did it.

I mean Georg Totsching was in the Malliot Jaune, I mean Totsching was a good rider in his own right, and especially when you look at Roberto Heras doing very well (and he rode like El Gordo in 2004 and 2005) and Iban Mayo.

Bradley McGee even came 4th in the Giro as well.

 

[Matteh]

2000
1st Armstrong - accused
2nd Ulrich - accused
3rd Beloki - Puerto
4th Moreau - Festina 98
5th Heras - doped
6th Virenque - doped
7th Botero - Puerto
8th Escartin - Kelme related
9th Mancebo - OP-accused
10th Nardello - possible winner, but rode for Mapei, the same team as Museeuw (who was clearly doped beyond all imagination)
11th Beltran - see Nardello
12th Hervé - doped
13th Otxoa - Kelme
14th Garcia Casas - Festina 98
15th Vinokourov - Another win for him then?

 

[Matteh]

It was the TT that did it.

I mean Georg Totsching was in the Malliot Jaune, I mean Totsching was a good rider in his own right, and especially when you look at Roberto Heras doing very well (and he rode like El Gordo in 2004 and 2005) and Iban Mayo.

Bradley McGee even came 4th in the Giro as well.

Having an insane Dauphine tour. Ulrich after 2 stages was 8 minutes back because he fell out the back of the peleton at some point and i missed it. He's now back up to 3rd 20 seconds behind a guy whose name i've forgotten and about 2 behind Tyler Hamilton. Winnable i reckon.

 

[Craig]

IMO I give L'Equipe about as much creditibility as you would give The Sun newspaer..

 

[Matteh]

IMO I give L'Equipe about as much creditibility as you would give The Sun newspaer..

What a fine upstanding publication!