Pick the Best All-Rounder Combos

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Kapil and Botham played in the same era and their averages are in similar league.

As a batsman the difference in averages is just 2 points in favour of Botham.
But then Kapil was far more aggressive and batted lower order, compensates the difference easily.
Kapil's fast scoring helped his team to get more runs many a times. ( as evident from scoreboards ) any other batsman would have contributed way less runs before running out of partners.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil and Botham played in the same era and their averages are in similar league.

As a batsman the difference in averages is just 2 points in favour of Botham.
But then Kapil was far more aggressive and batted lower order, compensates the difference easily.
Kapil's fast scoring helped his team to get more runs many a times. ( as evident from scoreboards ) any other batsman would have contributed way less runs before running out of partners.

Botham had an SR of 60 so it's not like he was a slouch in the dept. But he has many more tons in less games up the order. Kapil was a no.7/8 level slogger down the order. Botham really is a much better bat.

 

[ma1978]

Botham had an SR of 60 so it's not like he was a slouch in the dept. But he has many more tons in less games up the order. Kapil was a no.7/8 level slogger down the order. Botham really is a much better bat.

put one down to elevate the other. No one who actually saw Kapils centuries like the one in Port Elizabeth would consider him a lower order slogger.

If Botham was better his numbers would reflect it

 

[OverratedSanity]

put one down to elevate the other. No one who actually saw Kapils centuries like the one in Port Elizabeth would consider him a lower order slogger.

If Botham was better his numbers would reflect it

They do reflect it. He scored as many hundreds as Imran and Kapil combined. Average isn't the only number.

 

[ma1978]

They do reflect it. He scored as many hundreds as Imran and Kapil combined. Average isn't the only number.

I think Botham is the better bat, that doesnt make Kapil a lower order slogger

 

[Coronis]

If Botham was better his numbers would reflect it

I think Botham is the better bat

 

[subshakerz]

put one down to elevate the other. No one who actually saw Kapils centuries like the one in Port Elizabeth would consider him a lower order slogger.

If Botham was better his numbers would reflect it

Yasir Shah has a ton again Cummin and co in Australia. He's still a tailender.

Whatever you want to call Kapil, he clearly wasnt good enough to bat in the top six.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Botham had an SR of 60 so it's not like he was a slouch in the dept. But he has many more tons in less games up the order. Kapil was a no.7/8 level slogger down the order. Botham really is a much better bat.

75+ scores
Kapil 15
Botham 16

Kapil was far more aggressive and did against better opponents overall.

 

[Coronis]

75+ scores
Kapil 15
Botham 16

Kapil was far more aggressive and did against better opponents overall.

So Botham has more 75+ scores in 65 less innings. Not sure how that helps your point

 

[subshakerz]

75+ scores
Kapil 15
Botham 16

Kapil was far more aggressive and did against better opponents overall.

Lol so you make up your own arbitrary category and still Botham does better.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

So Botham has more 75+ scores in 65 less innings. Not sure how that helps your point

Its 23 innings.. Not 65

Botham just 1 more 75+ in 23 less innings.. That itself is a negligible difference.

Add to that
Kapil far more aggressive
Better stats against stronger teams
Batted below 6 mostly

Still i think Botham was slightly better with bat, and both were capable of monster ATG batting performances unlike Imran, Hadlee or Pollock.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lol so you make up your own arbitrary category and still Botham does better.

Its not arbitrary.. Its fact checking.
Botham does better.. But the gap is very small.

 

[Coronis]

Its 23 innings.. Not 65

Botham just 1 more 75+ in 23 less innings.. That itself is a negligible difference.

Add to that
Kapil far more aggressive
Better stats against stronger teams
Batted below 6 mostly

Still i think Botham was slightly better with bat, and both were capable of monster ATG batting performances unlike Imran, Hadlee or Pollock.

mb looked at his bowling innings

Its not arbitrary.. Its fact checking.
Botham does better.. But the gap is very small.

its the definition of arbitrary lol.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

its the definition of arbitrary lol.

How is that?

A super aggressive batsman who bats at number 7 or 8 with weak tail end batsmen supposed to score more 100s than a batsman bats at 6 or 7?
What kind of logic is that?

 

[subshakerz]

How is that?

A super aggressive batsman who bats at number 7 or 8 with weak tail end batsmen supposed to score more 100s than a batsman bats at 6 or 7?
What kind of logic is that?

You are missing the point. Kapil was at 7 or 8 because he wasn't good enough to bat higher in the top six in the first place and build more substantial knocks. Hence he was given freedom to swing his bat down the order.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You are missing the point. Kapil was at 7 or 8 because he wasn't good enough to bat higher in the top six in the first place and build more substantial knocks. Hence he was given freedom to swing his bat down the order.

Yet he scored 15+ 75 scores , averaged almost same, more consistent, better against best bowling attack...
Botham wouldn't have scored 14 centuries if he was batting at 7 and 8.

 

[Coronis]

Botham wouldn't have scored 14 centuries if he was batting at 7 and 8.

Maybe. But he wasn’t batting at 7 and 8 for a reason.

 

[subshakerz]

Yet he scored 15+ 75 scores , averaged almost same, more consistent, better against best bowling attack...
Botham wouldn't have scored 14 centuries if he was batting at 7 and 8.

He didn't average as much and scored those in more innings. But the main point is a better quality bat ends up in the top 6.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He didn't average as much and scored those in more innings. But the main point is a better quality bat ends up in the top 6.

I am not commenting on PFK's argument as I believe Botham to atleast be a tier above Kapil Dev as a batsman; but better quality bat ends up in top 6 isn't really a good argument. For once, that depends much on the relative batting strength of their individual teams and you also have to factor in that a batsman batting at 6 can infact be worse than another team's no 7. There are much better arguments for Botham's superiority.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

How is that?

A super aggressive batsman who bats at number 7 or 8 with weak tail end batsmen supposed to score more 100s than a batsman bats at 6 or 7?
What kind of logic is that?

Sounds like Daniel Vettori who was a better batter than Kapil for most of their respective careers.