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Official Pro-Wrestling Thread (WWE, TNA, ROH etc.)

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KennyD

International Vice-Captain
Top effort Jono!!! :thumbsup:

Im a WWE newbie just this year, and your post was very informative and adds to what Ive learnt from reading archives on the net. Chris benoit is my favourite wrestler just coz hes a great performer, really puts his body on the line IMO. Especially with his diving head butts and the way he slams his body into the corner post shows how dedicated he is. Watching Batista p*ssy foot his way into the corner post also shows Benoit's class.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
First off, thanks for the compliments guys. Fellow wrestling fans :)

Hmmm, this isn't really going to be rebuttal. I don't know how I'll handle this, but I'll just wing it.

masterblaster said:
I think at the time Triple H faced Booker T, Booker T was NOT championship material in my view anyway. His reign would've bombed in all honesty and with several stars gone at the time Triple H was the only man who could carry the RAW Belt.
If someone isn't championship material, they shouldn't be main eventing (even though it wasn't the main event of Mania 19, you get what I mean) a Wrestlemania. And if they had no intention of giving Booker the belt, why book him on the Raw shows to logically lead to a win. The entire African American race was made to look inferior to Triple H. That's a burial. The WWE had Booker as filler for Wrestlemania, waiting for Nash's return. That's not how you treat a loyal wrestler. Where's Nash now? TNA. Where's Goldberg? Wrestling in Japan, not giving a crap about the WWE. Where's Jericho, Kane, RVD and Booker T? Still in the WWE.

And believe it or not, Triple H's long title reign bombed. I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the idea of a long heel reign, is for the final blow off to pay off big. Who finally beat Triple H after his long ass reign? Goldberg. What the hell did that gain? If Booker cleanly breat Triple H at Mania, he would have been over. But he didn't. In the eyes of the marks, he's a choker. Like Jericho.

What happened when Jericho beat The Rock at No Mercy 2001 for the world title? He rose, he rose high. Even if Rock did beat him for it weeks later, the fact that Jericho beat The Rock on PPV was a huge push.
masterblaster said:
Same with a lot of other stars during that time (BAR JERICHO), none are really in the league of Triple H when it comes to promos, wrestling ability or their ability to entertain a crowd. I agree he shouldn't have buried them like he did.....
To put someone over, that person doesn't have to be in the league of that wrestler. Ultimate Warrior was NEVER in the league of Hogan, but his CLEAN win at Mania 6 put him over big time. There's no way in hell anyone expected Taker to become so big, despite his awesome gimmick. Yet Hogan put him over. I can go on and on. Yoko over Hogan? You do what's best for the company in the long-term. Rock had Brock beat him clean at Summer Slam. The guy wasn't even in the company for 6 months yet. Once Brock won, he was insanely over. Taker had Brock beat him clean in a HIAC match for God's sake. That's huge! Brock was the man after that. Angle put Brock over clean in the MAIN EVENT of Mania 19. That is why I respect these guys.

masterblaster said:
....but these burials I believe were part of the process that lead to Evolution. A guy that scampers through mid carders such as Booker T, RVD, Kane and Steiner shouldn't be leader of a future bad ass faction.
Still doesn't excuse Trips in 2002 going over Jericho twice when he was a face. I don't mind Triple H winning as much as he did in 2003, but the fashion he did it in was inexcusable (and I'm glad you've accepted that fact.)
masterblaster said:
I don't think Triple H should've buried a lot of those stars especially RVD and Booker T, but for one, they were NEVER championship (Rock, Austin, Taker, Triple H, Foley, Angle) material and they needed Triple H's character to progress and make it out to be 'invinceable' so to say, much like Ric Flair's character in the 1970/80's.
Do you realise how often Flair jobbed? He jobbed to everyone. He put Ricky Steamboat over a million times, and thus why Steamboat is probably the 3rd greatest babyface of all time in terms of pure character (Hogan and Austin are 1 and 2).

masterblaster said:
Bad booking at times, but understandable since Evolution needed to be introduced..
But that's short-term. Just say Evolution ends in 2005. They were around for about 2 years (roughly, would have been more had Batista not got injured running on the beach with his wife lol). So for the sake of 2 years of Evolution, the WWE put themselves in a hole where there was no where else to go.


masterblaster said:
I guess I enjoy Triple H's character the most for sevaral reasons, but also because I believe he's probably one of the most hardest working superstars in reality, and I admire the passion he has for the WWE.

I also 'marked out' BIG TIME when Triple H came back. To this day, Triple H's return in January 2002 to Madison Square Gardens is my favourite RAW Moment of all time and I guess after this very moment I officially became a huge fan of the guy and gained a lot of respect after his 8 month absence.
I'm not disputing that. How many times in that post do I say that Triple H rules? I complimented him over and over again. You know who else ruled? Hogan. But you can't deny his backstage influence either. It's just not cool. It doesn't take away from their ability and what they have achieved, but it tarnishes their reputation.

I acknowledge Triple H's character, his ability to play an awesome heel, his wrestling talent (when he wants to). But what I will not dismiss is his treatment of other wrestlers.
nikhil1772 said:
I guess this debate wont last long,will it?...
I too dont see any 'burials' other than Jericho
Huh? I don't know what your definition of a burial is, but here's some examples. Kane was embarassed. Triple H insulted the crap out of him, and accused him of necrophilia. For God's sakes, Kane needed to get back at Triple H. That's just logical booking. But Triple H wins.

Triple H then insults the African Race, insults Booker T's criminal background, the ghetto and whatever racial denigration you can think of. Booker T stands there in the ring, and doesn't reply. He just stands there taking it. When I watched that I figured he was definitely going to win the title, nope. Not only that, Triple H hit the pedigree and pinned him like 5-6 seconds after. Now that's a burial. The uproar after Mania 19 was huge, I still remember it like it was yesterday. Shawn over Jericho and Triple H over Booker T almost caused riots.

nikhil1772 said:
...and people as hard working as HHH cant be as bad as,Jono,u r making him out to be...
Do you want me to bow to his feet? Because other than that, I don't know what more I need to do to show you that I respect Triple H's passion, ability, mic skills, overness, crowd reactions. I respect everything Triple H has done. I've followed him since 1996 when he debuted with Sable as his manager, come on. People jumped on the bandwagon in 1998 when he was the leader of DX. That's 2 years after I began following him. I realised he had talent when he feuded with Mankind in 1997. So don't accuse me of not respecting the man's ability. Because like I said, I still cheer for him today. I just don't cheer when he wins when he doesn't need to.
KennyD said:
Top effort Jono!!! :thumbsup:

Im a WWE newbie just this year, and your post was very informative and adds to what Ive learnt from reading archives on the net. Chris benoit is my favourite wrestler just coz hes a great performer, really puts his body on the line IMO. Especially with his diving head butts and the way he slams his body into the corner post shows how dedicated he is. Watching Batista p*ssy foot his way into the corner post also shows Benoit's class.
You sir, are a legend. :cool: What I love about current WWE fans is their respect for true wrestling talent. The crowd's reaction to Benoit/Angle at Royal Rumble 2003 will never be forgotten. Nor will the reaction to Benoit and Eddie hugging after their wins at Mania 20. The true wrestling fans are still fans, while the ones that jumped on the bandwagon because it was cool back in 1998 are long gone.
 
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Sudeep

International Captain
From a fairly reliable wrestling site:
The Toronto Sun newspaper had an article today that talked to Bret Hart and his new bride, whom he met in Italy. Bret and Cinzia were married on September 15, 2004 in a quiet ceremony in Milan, Italy.

Hart kept the nuptuals quiet and only shared the happy news with his family. He introduced his wife to Toronto Sun news reporter Joe Warmington, who always handles the celebrity stories in Toronto. Bret will be appearing in the stage production of "Aladdin: The Magical Family Musical" in Toronto at the Elgin Theatre as the "Genie of the Lamp" until the end of the year.

Bret went on to comment that after his run with the show is over, the two will return to Italy to spend the winter before deciding what he will do professionally.

Congratulations to the Bret and his new bride, Cinzia.
 

Sudeep

International Captain
What does everyone think of the releases WWE made recently? IMO, Test and Gail Kim were the unluckiest of all - didn't deserve that.

Here's a link to a Gail Kim interview done by former home :D - her first since being fired.
 

masterblaster

International Captain
KennyD said:
Top effort Jono!!! :thumbsup:

Im a WWE newbie just this year, and your post was very informative and adds to what Ive learnt from reading archives on the net. Chris benoit is my favourite wrestler just coz hes a great performer, really puts his body on the line IMO. Especially with his diving head butts and the way he slams his body into the corner post shows how dedicated he is. Watching Batista p*ssy foot his way into the corner post also shows Benoit's class.
Benoit is an absolute legend. The amount of respect I have for that man is HUGE.

But if you think Benoit's matches were good. I urge you to watch Triple H's matches with Cactus Jack from 2000.

If I remember correctly.....

Triple H vs Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000 PPV

Triple H's Comments on that Match:

"This might be my favorite match. Both Mick and I had a great night. We were able to do a gimmick match, a hardcore match, and tell a story with it. That's something that many people don't do. Most guys just go out there with pots and pans and hit each other in the head, but that's not what we did.

Mick knew he was winding down, and he wanted to go out on a high note. He wanted to go out in a big way. We made a completely new character out of Cactus Jack. Mick had been Cactus Jack before, but in just a few weeks of buildup for the Rumble, we created this mythical, god-like being out of Cactus Jack. And we were able to do a lot of incredible things.

The setup for this match was so good that I was a little bit nervous going into it, thinking, "How are we going to follow this hype? How the hell are we gonna do this?" But as soon as I got out to the arena, I knew that we were gonna have a great one.

We accomplished a lot of things. It silenced a lot of my critics. I think it was a match where people stood up and took notice of Triple H as someone above the norm. And I think it gave Cactus Jack the platform that he wanted to go out on. It's one of my favorite moments in the business."


Triple H vs Stone Cold Steve Austin, No Way Out PPV 2001

Triple H's comments on that match:

"I liked the concept of the match - two out of three falls, with each fall being different. I'd never seen it done before. I loved the buildup that Austin and I had going into it; Steve and I had a very intense rivalry. And I think it was a very important match for Austin, who was making his comeback. It was the match where he re-established himself as a main event performer who could deliver.

People questioned him when he came back. Was he going to be 100%? Was his neck gonna be a factor? Could he still wrestle?

All those things were questions, and he answered them all, silencing the critics. He was jazzed up for that match, really fired up for it. And it was a tremendous match. I think it went around 45 minutes. That's a long match. There were a lot of different styles involved. We went from a straight wrestling match, to a street fight, to a cage.

It would have been easy to lose the fans, since many expected it to go to the third fall. Once they see who wins the first fall, they're guessing the other will win the second fall.

Preparing for the match, I actually studied a tape of a two out of three falls match with Buddy Rogers and Pat O'Connor that ended in two falls. I had never seen that happen."


Triple H vs The Rock Judgment Day PPV 2000

Triple H's comments on that match:

"A lot of people said "no way" to that match. Iron Man Matches aren't usually done. No one can go an hour and hold the crowd. But I had been begging Vince for about a year for it. I wanted at some point in my career to do an Iron Man Match. He was kind of mulling around it. I think he was worried that the fans wouldn't buy it anymore, that it was too long. The last Iron Man Match we had was Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart [Wrestlemania XII]. They went no falls, and a lot of people didn't like the match because they thought it was too long. I enjoyed it, but I think some of the fans weren't fond of it.

It was still something I wanted to try. It's the one thing that the old-timers always have on us. They always say "Yeah, but we used to go 60 minutes." They never say it directly, but you know it's there.

Steve Austin and I were originally going to do an Iron Man Match before he got hurt. But right before Judgment Day, the idea was brought up of doing it against The Rock, and I was thrilled to do it. I couldn't wait. It was another obstacle, another challenge. It was a chance to go out in front of the world and prove that I could go for one hour, that I could keep people interested for a whole hour - that it could still be done.

It made me feel good because I had a few old-timers come up to me and say "Wow! What a match you guys had." I even had some guys, like Jack Lanza and others, who said, "That reminded me of the old days."

That was what I was trying to accomplish. I wanted to go out and put on a match that the modern day wrestling fans and the old-time wrestling fans would both agree was good. Not a gimmick, just a good match. Taking an old concept and making it new. I think it paid off."


I'd agree with him, these three matches were probably the best ones I've ever seen in the WWE.
 

masterblaster

International Captain
Jono said:
Still doesn't excuse Trips in 2002 going over Jericho twice when he was a face. I don't mind Triple H winning as much as he did in 2003, but the fashion he did it in was inexcusable (and I'm glad you've accepted that fact.)
They obviously had Triple H win due to the enormous fan reaction he was getting and all the emotion put into his return after 8 months of hell in rehab.

I doubt they would've made Triple H lose to Jericho after THAT much of publicity and that much of fan support. WWE would've seriously had a ratings drop. Jericho lost twice, but a lot of people 'marked out' big time at that.

*Switches into JR mode*

"Bah God! Triple H, after 8 months of hellacious rehab, gets what is his, GETS WHAT IS HIS, THIS IS HIS DREAM, THIS IS HIS LIFE, TRIPLE H HAS WON THE UNDISPUTED TITLE!!!!!!"

"All the sacrifice, all the tears, all the blood, blah, blah, blah"

*Switches out of JR mode*

and at this time, Jericho was the annoying heel so all the 'marks' really probably wanted him to lose anyway.

....and since when do WWE writers cater for the needs of the 'smart marks'?

I hope you get what I mean.....

:D ;) :cool: :p
 
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Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
masterblaster said:
....and since when do WWE writers cater for the needs of the 'smart marks'?

I hope you get what I mean.....

:D ;) :cool: :p
The day that the WWE writers had to be told by Vince McMahon to not ready anything on the internet, because it is too 'negative'. To me that shows that they care what the IWC thinks, and as it grows every year (its absolutely huge today), they better start caring because its the marks that left the product, and the IWC are generally the ones that have been watching for many years no matter how crap the product gets. (1995-96 anyone?).
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Sudeep said:
What does everyone think of the releases WWE made recently? IMO, Test and Gail Kim were the unluckiest of all - didn't deserve that.

Here's a link to a Gail Kim interview done by former home :D - her first since being fired.
MINOR SPOILER BELOW!!!

I think its pathetic, especially Test. They release Test because he is injured, but they keep garbage like Hardcore Holly? Holly is probably the stiffest worker in the WWE. He basically beat the crap out of Renee Dupree on a house show just because of a parking ticket :-/ That's so unprofessional, and so his punishment is jobbing to a no name jobber in a dark match. Real punishment. 8-)



He looked so bad on SD.
 
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masterblaster

International Captain
Test deserved to be in WWE for me, and I liked Gail Kim, I thought her release was extremely unfair. I couldn't care less about Jazz and Rodney Mack.
 

Sudeep

International Captain
Jono said:
The day that the WWE writers had to be told by Vince McMahon to not ready anything on the internet, because it is too 'negative'. To me that shows that they care what the IWC thinks, and as it grows every year (its absolutely huge today), they better start caring because its the marks that left the product, and the IWC are generally the ones that have been watching for many years no matter how crap the product gets. (1995-96 anyone?).
In fact, I think it's started to die now. It reached it's peak last year, but for some reason I seem to think that IWC is becoming passive when it comes to influencing the WWE.
 

Sudeep

International Captain
masterblaster said:
Test deserved to be in WWE for me, and I liked Gail Kim, I thought her release was extremely unfair. I couldn't care less about Jazz and Rodney Mack.
What I fail to understand is what WWE wants to do firing Gail Kim, and hiring the Diva search losers? There's only one with an official contract - Maria - who needs to take public-speaking lessons, but the others seem to be getting TV time as well. :@
 

masterblaster

International Captain
Well if Gail Kim, A Train, Rico and Billy Gunn are headed to NWA TNA, it looks like they will be pretty stiff compeitition for WWE in the future.
 

masterblaster

International Captain
I just hope that the WWE don't release Molly, along with Trish she's the best they have, but she's so underappreciated its not funny.
 

nikhil1772

State Vice-Captain
Jono said:
Huh? I don't know what your definition of a burial is, but here's some examples. Kane was embarassed. Triple H insulted the crap out of him, and accused him of necrophilia. For God's sakes, Kane needed to get back at Triple H. That's just logical booking. But Triple H wins.

Triple H then insults the African Race, insults Booker T's criminal background, the ghetto and whatever racial denigration you can think of. Booker T stands there in the ring, and doesn't reply. He just stands there taking it. When I watched that I figured he was definitely going to win the title, nope. Not only that, Triple H hit the pedigree and pinned him like 5-6 seconds after. Now that's a burial. The uproar after Mania 19 was huge, I still remember it like it was yesterday. Shawn over Jericho and Triple H over Booker T almost caused riots.
Jono said:
Do you want me to bow to his feet? Because other than that, I don't know what more I need to do to show you that I respect Triple H's passion, ability, mic skills, overness, crowd reactions. I respect everything Triple H has done. I've followed him since 1996 when he debuted with Sable as his manager, come on. People jumped on the bandwagon in 1998 when he was the leader of DX. That's 2 years after I began following him. I realised he had talent when he feuded with Mankind in 1997. So don't accuse me of not respecting the man's ability. Because like I said, I still cheer for him today. I just don't cheer when he wins when he doesn't need to.
Ignorance is Bliss...

Jono,I dont know much about you but I am starting to imagine u as a lawyer who is always against defendants,proving them guilty all the time... :D

I appreciate what u did and what u wrote and all that(it was great reading them)but totally failed to convince me to change my views about HHH,HBK...sorry and not because I like them,I got my reasons and I got no time to explain...(day after tomorrow I got my engg xams)

Peace
 

nikhil1772

State Vice-Captain
I guess only Sudeep here in this forum lives in India so I want some info abt TNA fom u Sudeep...
I know Star World airs TNA but I never get to watch it except for once a fortnight coz of timing problems...I have no idea which episode when actually took place and I guess they show one PPV in two parts on Fri and Sat...I could know if I'd have got to watch it regularly...I really enjoy it
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
nikhil1772, I was never trying to convince you to dislike Triple H, I was merely answering the question as to why so many of the IWC dislike him. I think I did so pretty well. ;)

Regarding TNA, well :(

It was the biggest week in TNA history, and now, from all signs, when it didn’t pan out, the company is in critical condition.

Here is the basic financial score. Panda Energy, in the two plus years it has been funding TNA, has lost approximately $15million on the venture. This came on the heels of the $1.6 million Health South lost in getting the company off the ground. There may also have been losses that Jerry Jarrett incurred during the interim period between Health South money and Panda Energy money. Because of the cost of buying television time, producing television, and signing higher priced talent, the losses in recent months have hit $200,000 to $250,000 per week. With the exception of WCW from 1999 on, no wrestling company in history is believed to have ever burned money at anywhere near close to this rate. Worse, they’ve done so without really making any mark on the industry or having any significant public visibility. There is simply no possible way the company could make money as things stand, but that has been clear for some time. The weekly PPV system was a big loser. Overseas revenue, television ad revenue and merchandising income, something counted on for profitability because of the WWE model, has been largely non-existent. All the talk of doing house shows is a pipe dream, because WWE is having difficulty drawing for house shows, and TNA simply can’t make money running house shows. IT would only cause more losses. The only revenue source is PPV.

While the company did what is being estimated by cable sources as 30,000 to 35,000 buys for Victory Road, which should bring the company from $385,000 to $450,000 in revenue, that only cuts monthly losses down to about $550,000 to $615,000 for November. Most likely, the number of buys drop for the Turning Point show in 12/5, although I don’t expect them to drop drastically, and do consider the numbers, four times what they were averaging on Wednesdays, as a success. However, there were those internally pegging 50,000 buys as the prediction. The one good thing is it seems to be proven the monthly idea at $”4.95 is far superior to the weekly at $9.95. The company, to break even, with all the costs, needs the PPV’s, that are virtually all the revenue they have, to do nearly 80,000 buys per show to become financially solvent. With the cutting back of expenses by taping two shows of Impact every other week, a saving of between $100,000 and $200,000 a week, that cuts the needed buys to somewhere near 62,000 and 70,000 for the company to break-even, again figures which are unattainable. That number is simply impossible no matter what stars they get when the TV is on such a poor time slot. Smackdown, for instance, does close to five million viewers a week, and the last Smackdown PPV did less than 200,00 buys. TNA Impact does maybe 140,000 total viewers per week. The UFC, which is significantly hotter (although has virtually no television), doesn’t come near the average TNA needs to break even on PPV shows, and only tops it when it has a really special main event. The numbers don’t add up. As we’ve written so many times, the company’s only answers if they were even in this game, was to know they needed patience, and until they got a good time slot for TV to have real visibility, and started bidding for top talent, they aren’t even in the game. If they weren’t willing to understand those rules, they had no business being in. Getting cold feet about losses now shows they never should have gotten in, because the venture had no potential for short-term profits until it established itself on TV in a good time slot and built an audience.

Far more important than the PPV numbers were the numbers for the two Best Damn Sports Show Period specials. The company was of the belief if they could average a 0.35 rating on the two 8pm showings on 11/10 and 11/11, that Fox Sports Net would turn Monday night into a wrestling night. They would have the BDSSP personalities do a weekly wrestling taping, for an 8-9.30 pm show in their regular time slot, which couldn’t be better, getting the lead-in on Raw, and building to main events against the usual lengthy interview open. This wouldn’t the old Monday Night Wars, because Fox Sports Net isn’t even a blip on the radar screen compared to TNT, or even Spike. The credibility of the celebrities and the time slot would drive the wrestling product. The wrestling would drive the ratings of what is a poorly rated by heavily promoted network flagship show, and hopefully also serve to increase the rating a little for the rest of the week.

Unfortunately, the first set of ratings we got last week, which were based on the overnights, which still fell al little short, didn’t hold up. The final numbers were: The original 8pm airing on 11/10 did a 0.26 rating (the show averages a 0.13 on Wednesday nights in the first run) and the 11pm airing did a 0.18 (averages 0.12). For 11/11, the first showing did a 0.18 (0.13 average in the slot), and 11pm showing did a 0.14 (0.12 average in that slot). At those numbers, the idea of getting a Monday prime time show is said to be highly unlikely by FSN sources. They were floating numbers claming they did triple what the show usually does, but they were really, for the two nights, 52% above, which is good, but not what they needed. UFC did an 0.43 a few years back, with a similar level of promotion, and worse, did a 0.47 with virtually no promotion on a Sunday afternoon. A James Toney boxing match on BDSSP did a 0.76 on the 8pm shows as the highest rated episode in the history of the show. The success of the Toney show is what got the BDSSP people interested in doing the pro wrestling week, as well as doing two boxing specials in December, including a Michael Moorer fight and the “Next Great Champ” championship match. The one thing that has to be noted when it comes to FSN ratings, is because we are talking about such low numbers, the margin of error is pretty high. The difference between a 0.1 and a 0.3 in some markets is just a viewer or two in the sample group. But it doesn’t matter, because accurate or not, and the odds are those numbers could be just as inaccurate on the high side as the low side, they are the gospel of the industry. Several in the industry noted to us when they read the real numbers, it was an eerie feeling, knowing so much was riding on it, how much the margin of error really is, and knowing they came up well short of what they needed at such a critical time. Worse from a morale standpoint has to be the fact that the second night drew less than the first night, even though so much of the first night were angles to build to the matches on the second night. It’s the same reality as the Friday ratings starting out so positively, and going down over time.

There are so many different things going on right now. The Jarrett’s and the Carters don’t see eye-to-eye, in particular Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter. It’s been noted that Jerry Jarrett has clearly undermined Jeff, although it’s a debatable point whether it’s for the good of the company or not. Jerry has apparently felt Jeff’s ideas about wrestling are too heavily influence by Vince Russo to the point Jerry can’t steer him back to a logical wrestling direction. Russo is totally gone from the company, and had confided to friends he thought TNA was done as soon as Dixie Carter got pregnant, feeling once she had her baby, her focus would be less on her wrestling company that was such a money drain. Considering the booking position in a company like this is always in play, and as long as he’s on the payroll he’s always in a position to be called after a failure, his leaving a $100,000 per year job that he only worked one day per week speaks volumes of how he reads the future. Others say Jerry is totally living on past laurels, has really not kept up on the business closely in ten years and is totally out of step when it comes to modern wrestling and modern fans. From reading his book, you get the impression his lengthy experiences in wrestling have taught him a lot of valuable lessons regarding talent and booking, but he had also not kept up with the modern business, which is an historic kiss of death for even the giants of the industry when making a comeback after being away. A sale of the company by Panda, or even Panda folding the company, wouldn’t surprise people close to the scene. Many expect one or the other to happen over the next 90 days. Jerry is now in more of a power position, while Dixie Carter had tried to appease wrestlers complaining that Jeff had booked the entire show around himself and were on the verge of leaving to giver her time and a change would be made. Jerry is thought to have the only chance to sign Hulk Hogan, since he gave Hogan one of his early breaks in the late 70’s and Hogan at least respects him as a promoter and booker who does have a legitimate impressive track record, even though it was a different business and a full generation ago. One has to think Hogan is never coming, particularly now that the primetime slot is so unlikely, because since WCW, he’s been very careful to avoid being tainted with failure. Jerry is also said to have the lead on two potential buyers, but Bob Carter has yet to give him a money figure that he wants for his stock. Unless the new ownership has a way to get them on a good time slot and expects losses while building the brand (and at that point you’d need a great booker with new ideas and the ability to get new talent over and have a unique concept of wrestling or else it’ll fail even with a good slot), they would only be fooling themselves. The only fit I can see working is a deal with Turner Broadcasting, but even then, they won’t be able to be put on the air likely until the spring of 2006.

Jerry’s move was to replace Jeff as booker with Dusty Rhodes. To the surprise of many, Dutch Mantel still has a job and will be Rhodes’ assistant, although nobody was taking bets on how long that would last. Jeremy Borash and Bill Banks are still giving input, but when the change was made on 11/19, it was clearly Dusty’s direction from this point forward. Many noted that Jerry going with Dusty showed once again how out of touch Jerry is with modern wrestling. Rhodes, 69, is just a few years younger than Jarrett, and was a successful booker from 1984-86 with Jim Crockett Promotions during its national expansion, which first made the company bigger than it had ever been. The downside was by the end of 1987, when the company’s business started falling due to going with a pat hand on top for too long (wrestling’s repeated mistake of trying to relive glory periods after they are over), the company was deep in debt and would have declared bankruptcy by the end of 1988 had Turner Broadcasting not purchased the company because they wanted to keep the highly rated traditional wrestling programming.

Rhodes was a huge name in the industry during Jarrett’s day as a major power broker as one of the top drawing wrestlers in the world for more than a decade. Rhodes also hasn’t had a successful year booking since 1986, and has booked numerous companies, including WCW, and his own companies, with little to no success. When Rhodes has been asked about what he’d do to turn things around, he was of the opinion that the only thing that draws is bringing back old legends, and was down on a lot of the wrestlers being on top who weren’t strong on interviews or had that special charisma. In the 80’s, Rhodes’ strength was an ability to make strong babyfaces, although none were ever over stronger than himself, which is certainly something the company needs. He’s a big believer in talking over action in the ring, because he was a great talking in his day, and remained a headliner long after he could do little in the ring but have talented heels work off him. He has in the past had an ability to create stars, which this company needs, but few have shown a past history at that better than Jerry Jarrett. Doing so is virtually impossible when you have television that so few are watching.

The Rhodes system in the past has been based on having a company filled with great talkers, which, with a few notable exceptions, is exactly the weakness of the current crew. He inherits a lot of wrestlers who can deliver in the ring, most of whom come across as interchangeable and most of whom haven’t gotten over to the weekly regulars. Rhodes built things around strong faces, who were never put in a position where they let the crowd down, chasing heel champions, who would escape with frequent screwjob endings. While his babyface philosophy is probably what is needed today, if he wasn’t evolved from that thought process regarding big match finishes, this won’t make it because that won’t fly on PPV today. The other question that has to do with every booker who is a performer is, how much will he be allowed to feature himself, because he is just about the best talker in the company, but is almost three decades past his prime as a performer. And there is also the question if he’d be allowed to bring in his son, and if he’d avoid the natural over pushing of him and creating a new nepotism deal in a business choking with that problem. Rhodes was introduced as the new booker to the wrestlers at the taping on 11/23, although is direction won’t start until the next taping, since the PPV was already booked. He talked to the X Division guys about slowing down their work, working on their promos and differentiating them.

It just shows how out of touch people are when a Gabe Sapolsky, who has a proven track record in 2004 in the US, doesn’t get asked (not that he’d do it, but if you paid attention to the current wrestling scene he’s clearly the best candidate out there). It’s as if much of the industry has stalled around 1988, and nothing in the last 16 years has registered, because so many in power grew up and learned wrestling in the 70’s and 80’s. At least Mantel had a successful track record coming in. The negative was Puerto Rico is a completely different culture with fan base described as closer to 70’s level US than modern level, and a culture filled with established starts with mainstream name recognition. Most importantly, in Puerto Rico, both groups had TV that everybody watches. Mantel’s jump from WWC to IWA as booker coincided with the turning around of that wrestling war, and he was a significant part of it, even though he’s not well liked there these days. But he wasn’t able to do much of anything for this product. Some of his stuff has been logical by the book. Nothing has been particularly grabbing. But, ultimately, it was doomed without TV, and still doomed with TV on such a weak network in such a poor timeslot.

As noted last week, the official decision was made this week of going to bi-weekly tapings of Impact to cut costs, and numerous other cost cutting measures are expected. The company taped two shows on 11/23, and will tape again on 12/7 and 12/21. Xplosion will turn into a magazine format show. It is expected that wrestlers will be paid per show they appear on, so the guys who work every TV show won’t be cut in pay, and will actually have an easier schedule only having to travel every other week. The positives of this are cutting in half of television production costs. There is a negative in the lack of immediacy, particularly for the second week show, which would be on a 12-day tape delay. In the slow moving wrestling business of a decade ago, that would be no problem, but in today’s business, where things break on almost a daily basis, and with such a specialized small audience, that could be significant. Still, given the finances, it’s the right option for now, and it can be changed if needed. If the company will pay wrestlers per show they appear on and their incomes aren’t sliced in half, it’s largely a benefit. If wrestlers suddenly get their income slashed at this point, after being cut once when Wednesday PPV’s were dropped, it would kill morale. At the same time, it isn’t like there are a lot of options available these days.
Now here's where I am confused. TNA just had an awesome PPV, Victory Road. Panda Energy has been financing them for a long time now, almost 2 years or more I think, and they've recently given them money to sign big name wrestlers such as Nash, Hall, Savage, DDP, Rowdy Roddy Piper and they've been very interested with Hogan who has been backstage at TNA shows. So why would Panda Energy pull the plug now?

I hope to God TNA stay alive.
 

KennyD

International Vice-Captain
Oh man that sucks that Gail kims gone, she was easily my favourite Diva. Definitely the most erotically s*xy IMO
 

masterblaster

International Captain
From what I saw on Fox8 a year ago when TNA was on, it was pretty poor in my opinion.

I've seen some clips recently as well, their talent pool is pretty good with Jarett, Sonjay Dutt, AJ Styles, Raven, Jeff Hardy, Ron Killings etc. but still their storylines, production values and general presentation is pretty damn poor if you ask me.

They look like currently a less polished version of WCW which never bodes well for the future.

Many of the TNA matches contain no ring psychology either. Call me an 'old school' fan but I rather see Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit or a Triple H wrestle with psychology and watch them tell a story rather than an abundance of 'High Spots'.

TNA has got a lot to learn. I hope they will prove to be valuable competition to the WWE in the same sense that ECW and WCW were. This will give the WWE a big kick up the backside and hopefully turn the WWE into the beast of a product it was before.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Recently they upped their game completely. They introduced a new cool idea with a 6 sided ring, and ever since they got their TV deal I thought they were doing quite well. However, I think they're obsessed with signing big name talent. I think they only need a few (probably just the Outsiders) to attract some attention. The rest of the wrestling can just be done with their immense talent pool.

I mean the X-Tech Gauntlet that opened Victory Road was > The whole Survivor Series PPV. But when you have a broken down and obviously past it Jeff Hardy taking on Jeff Jarrett in the main event, you know there's something wrong with the booking.
 
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