***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2016/17

[CharlesLara]

Just checked the Auckland XI for the Canterbury game.

How on earth is Elliot Herd in that squad (apart from the obvious Taka connect). Surely Sean Solia is FAAAAARR more deserving (better with bat and ball) of a start than Elliot, who, continues the trend of spinners that dont actually spin the ball.
Is it an surprise that the wealthiest clubs have ALL the pull, I mean Michael Barry is only in there cause he's continually in the runs, but they been drip feeding him opportunities for a while now (which is nothing new if you know the politics of Auckland Cricket).

Now I'm not blind to know that the big 4 (Taka, Cornwall, Howick, Parnell) have the pull to get the best players, but seriously, Elliot Herd? I'm not gonna comment on likes of Dane Hutchinson getting a contract in the first place. Why is there a need for a 30 year old who averages 44 with the ball and 21 with the bat (no 50's or 100's) getting a shout over younger players with far more potential? Then we wonder why their isnt a strong young batting core coming through the ranks and you have guys like Andy De Boorder chilling, making club hundreds working a 9-5.

 

[Blain]

Thanks for that, always thought something must be rotten up in Auckland. With that many cricketers, and playing Grobs and Quinn week in week out (last season, add Hutch this season) didn't make sense.

 

[Dan]

Devcich likely out for the season, apparently. Ligament injury of some description.

 

[SteveNZ]

Just checked the Auckland XI for the Canterbury game.

How on earth is Elliot Herd in that squad (apart from the obvious Taka connect). Surely Sean Solia is FAAAAARR more deserving (better with bat and ball) of a start than Elliot, who, continues the trend of spinners that dont actually spin the ball. v
Is it an surprise that the wealthiest clubs have ALL the pull, I mean Michael Barry is only in there cause he's continually in the runs, but they been drip feeding him opportunities for a while now (which is nothing new if you know the politics of Auckland Cricket).

Now I'm not blind to know that the big 4 (Taka, Cornwall, Howick, Parnell) have the pull to get the best players, but seriously, Elliot Herd? I'm not gonna comment on likes of Dane Hutchinson getting a contract in the first place. Why is there a need for a 30 year old who averages 44 with the ball and 21 with the bat (no 50's or 100's) getting a shout over younger players with far more potential? Then we wonder why their isnt a strong young batting core coming through the ranks and you have guys like Andy De Boorder chilling, making club hundreds working a 9-5.

Don't imagine they've named an XI yet? The game is tomorrow. Solia is in the squad too. Having said that, Rangiora is a seamer's graveyard. Honestly, bowling there sucks. So if Herd offers similar with the bat (Solia is a better bat but it's not a million miles away) and his spin is much preferable to seam (which it is there), then he plays. I get it. It's got nothing to do with where Herd plays his cricket. And it's not like Suburbs aren't a fashionable club to come from. Gup, Tama Canning, Reece Young, Neesham, Barry, they've been fairly represented. Great club.

I don't believe for one second there's a power base in Auckland in terms of politics. Those four clubs you mention have the most significant junior bases. North Shore would be another, but for some reason don't churn out Auckland players. I can only speak for my club, we've produced an insane amount of NZ and domestic players. I think over a 15-20 year period, something like 11-12 guys have played for NZ and another 8-10 domestically. We have a very strong junior base, had a head coach in Dipak Patel who was unparalled in bringing through talent and was/is a brilliant one on one coach, and the competition of training/competing against great cricketers in our facilities pushed people ahead. I can't think of one player from our club that played for Auckland or NZ and didn't deserve it.

And Auckland signed Hutchinson because their seamer stocks are absolutely nil below what is playing now. Randall left, Quinn did too as did Dean Bartlett. There's nothing, even at U19 level. Weird to mention Grob and Quinn playing last year because Grob is a good quality domestic all-rounder and Quinn is now playing for Essex.

 

[SteveNZ]

And there is a strong young core of batsmen coming through. Chapman, Hicks, O'Donnell (both Robbie and Will), Phillips (both Glenn and Dale), Finn Allen is an absolute gun, and probably more I don't know of. Andy de was buggered around by Paul Strang under his uninspiring reign, and is too smart to chase a domestic dream for the next 5 years of his life. Absolutely quality bloke and player, but I think he went close to his ceiling. He wasn't necessarily going to go to the next level.

Bowlers, absolutely nothing. Lockie is the great white hope.

 

[CharlesLara]

Don't imagine they've named an XI yet? The game is tomorrow. Solia is in the squad too. Having said that, Rangiora is a seamer's graveyard. Honestly, bowling there sucks. So if Herd offers similar with the bat (Solia is a better bat but it's not a million miles away) and his spin is much preferable to seam (which it is there), then he plays. I get it. It's got nothing to do with where Herd plays his cricket. And it's not like Suburbs aren't a fashionable club to come from. Gup, Tama Canning, Reece Young, Neesham, Barry, they've been fairly represented. Great club.

I don't believe for one second there's a power base in Auckland in terms of politics. Those four clubs you mention have the most significant junior bases. North Shore would be another, but for some reason don't churn out Auckland players. I can only speak for my club, we've produced an insane amount of NZ and domestic players. I think over a 15-20 year period, something like 11-12 guys have played for NZ and another 8-10 domestically. We have a very strong junior base, had a head coach in Dipak Patel who was unparalled in bringing through talent and was/is a brilliant one on one coach, and the competition of training/competing against great cricketers in our facilities pushed people ahead. I can't think of one player from our club that played for Auckland or NZ and didn't deserve it.

And Auckland signed Hutchinson because their seamer stocks are absolutely nil below what is playing now. Randall left, Quinn did too as did Dean Bartlett. There's nothing, even at U19 level. Weird to mention Grob and Quinn playing last year because Grob is a good quality domestic all-rounder and Quinn is now playing for Essex.

I kinda figured you would chime in on this, and wanted your VERY informed opinion this.

I do 100% agree with this and most of your post. I guess my tone came off far more bitter than expected (well to be fair, it was bitter LOL).

I didn't mean it to be a power base in that sense, but definitely an opportunity thing. Im assuming you're a Howick guy, and they have been strong for as long as I can remember and the junior cricket call is definitely a huge factor. I played for Shore 2 seasons ago and their junior turnout is CRAZY, Devonport Domain on Saturday morning is thing of beauty, the reason they are not producing is because most of their talent base used to be provided by Westlake's strongest players (back in the Terry Crab, Richard Jones, Pete Erasmus (now there's a name) era). They all go to Taka now cause of top 8 and more of a look in, I don't blame them either, if you are wanting to push for higher honours.

Dipak and I butted heads, but that was more me than him if I look back at it (being a leggie and already feeling lonely LOL) he never seemed to take to me, Kaushik did (LOL).

Can't argue with that, Grobelaar had the Prems comp on toast with his swing and seam in THAT breakout season and developed into a pretty handy domestic all-rounder. Yeah Dean couldn't stay fit long enough tbh, have had numerous long convos with him about that decision.

I guess it does make sense, but I guess the worry is the fact they have ended up in this position in the first place.

 

[CharlesLara]

And there is a strong young core of batsmen coming through. Chapman, Hicks, O'Donnell (both Robbie and Will), Phillips (both Glenn and Dale), Finn Allen is an absolute gun, and probably more I don't know of. Andy de was buggered around by Paul Strang under his uninspiring reign, and is too smart to chase a domestic dream for the next 5 years of his life. Absolutely quality bloke and player, but I think he went close to his ceiling. He wasn't necessarily going to go to the next level.

Bowlers, absolutely nothing. Lockie is the great white hope.

Chapman just needs more chances, he seems gunnish. I'm a fan of Robbie's approach to batting, and he has been steadily improving which is what you want to see from a young player (and the son of a batting coach LOL).
Interesting you say Andy was near his ceiling, you would of seen far more of him than me, I only had him in our Secondary Schools team, who funnily enough, Jeet opened the batting for, and Southee opened the bowling for. Like you said though, Andy is too smart, cricket was not his ONLY option and to this day best skip I played under.

 

[African Monkey]

Hope to see my cousin Sean Solia finally make his debut tomorrow. Went to see him play earlier in the year at Hagley but he ended up being 12th man . If he and Michael Barry play it would have to be the first time ever that 2 St Peters old boys are representing Auckland at the same time (not that there have been many to have come out of there before).

 

[Blocky]

And there is a strong young core of batsmen coming through. Chapman, Hicks, O'Donnell (both Robbie and Will), Phillips (both Glenn and Dale), Finn Allen is an absolute gun, and probably more I don't know of. Andy de was buggered around by Paul Strang under his uninspiring reign, and is too smart to chase a domestic dream for the next 5 years of his life. Absolutely quality bloke and player, but I think he went close to his ceiling. He wasn't necessarily going to go to the next level.

Bowlers, absolutely nothing. Lockie is the great white hope.

I'd have thought given his strength in premier cricket and that he also followed it up in Auckland A cricket, Michael Ravlic might have been given a go for Auckland this season. Parnell don't tend to get as many people in the Aces as people make out, a lot of the guys that do play in the Aces are imports and not Parnell born and raised.

Dipak has been awesome for How-Pak but it's a shame we don't see more structured coaching, the few seasons I played up here before giving the game away, I felt Hamilton had a much better structure to get the most out of its cricketers and a much wider net at assessing potential and ensuring they were worked on. My experience of Auckland cricket was that unless you were capable of bowling a few quality overs in the nets, reserves and thirds never practiced with us in the prems, and basically whoever was named in the prems at the start of the season remained the prems until the end of the season even if they were dire out of form and there was a bloke the level below creaming it.

Another big issue that pisses off a lot of club players in that 19-24 yr old phase where they could turn around and become another Grobbelar, is that they lose their spot to FOTM coming out of the highschools each year even if the highschool kid isn't at their level. The funniest thing I ever saw was a couple of ND Age group players coming into a very strong side in Hamilton, not being good enough and being asked to play reserves, throwing a tantrum and leaving the club - that's exactly the sort of bitchy player we need to stop giving opportunities to, they'll never work hard at it, they rely solely on their natural talent.

 

[CharlesLara]

I'd have thought given his strength in premier cricket and that he also followed it up in Auckland A cricket, Michael Ravlic might have been given a go for Auckland this season. Parnell don't tend to get as many people in the Aces as people make out, a lot of the guys that do play in the Aces are imports and not Parnell born and raised.

Dipak has been awesome for How-Pak but it's a shame we don't see more structured coaching, the few seasons I played up here before giving the game away, I felt Hamilton had a much better structure to get the most out of its cricketers and a much wider net at assessing potential and ensuring they were worked on. My experience of Auckland cricket was that unless you were capable of bowling a few quality overs in the nets, reserves and thirds never practiced with us in the prems, and basically whoever was named in the prems at the start of the season remained the prems until the end of the season even if they were dire out of form and there was a bloke the level below creaming it.

Another big issue that pisses off a lot of club players in that 19-24 yr old phase where they could turn around and become another Grobbelar, is that they lose their spot to FOTM coming out of the highschools each year even if the highschool kid isn't at their level. The funniest thing I ever saw was a couple of ND Age group players coming into a very strong side in Hamilton, not being good enough and being asked to play reserves, throwing a tantrum and leaving the club - that's exactly the sort of bitchy player we need to stop giving opportunities to, they'll never work hard at it, they rely solely on their natural talent.

This is true , but what about the flipside of that scenario? Cause thats a real thing too, and I speak from personal experience. I played reserves (after being an age group player) and was top wicketaker at the club that year (as a leggie mind you) and was sill shunned for the reserves "older" left armer who really was just that, a reserves player. I mean it's obviously a lot more complex than that (**** all half decent captains, or guys that actually have any nouse about the game, mismanagement etc) but a lot of guys coming into club cricket scene are entering an old boys club full of guys not seeing the bigger picture outside of themselves, hating on younger guys out of spite. I mean you touched on it in the first paragraph of guys doing **** all in the prems but because they are "prems" they will stay.

How-Pak has a strong sense of what needs to be done to make it and they encourage that on the WHOLE, whereas you find the smaller clubs (the public school feeders TBH) focussing on one or two players for higher honours and hoping for some sort of ****** trickle down effect.

You have brought up NZ's coaching and thats also valid, as most prems coaches are not really that great for youngsters, and unless you have a GREAT club environment (Suburbs comes to mind, I played at Waitakere (LOL ego's everywhere)) where the seniors are very welcoming and the youngsters look up to them, theres this weird mix of journeyman old guy, and REALLY young potential, nothing in between.

 

[Blocky]

Well that's the other thing, the captains aren't usually those with tactical nouse or the ability to get the best out of the troops, they tend to be old stalwarts.

One season we literally let every single person have a match as captain and we won more games than the season before under the guy who had been captaining the prems for several seasons, mostly due to the fact that bowlers were treated on their merits and the batting order wasn't set in stone. But to be honest it really comes down to the club having a level of administrative control over what happens on the pitch. How many times do you see the best reserve player get selected to go to prems, only to bat 11, not bowl and be treated as a specialist fielder?

But ultimately, a lot of the younger kids don't want to stay and work hard to get their overs/runs. Being a spinner in club cricket in NZ must really be an annoying thing, because ultimately it doesn't matter who bowls spin, as long as they land it on the wicket with a half decent field setting, they'll take wickets here with how pathetic most club cricketers are at working a spinner around the wicket. If you're actually any good as a spinner, you won't really differentiate yourself, except to say you'll probably go for less runs and take fewer wickets because they simply can't hit your bowling.

 

[African Monkey]

You have brought up NZ's coaching and thats also valid, as most prems coaches are not really that great for youngsters, and unless you have a GREAT club environment (Suburbs comes to mind, I played at Waitakere (LOL ego's everywhere)) where the seniors are very welcoming and the youngsters look up to them, theres this weird mix of journeyman old guy, and REALLY young potential, nothing in between.

It helps at Suburbs that most of them played at school together (I played a lot of cricket at school with most of their top side and reserves players), and if they didn't play at school, they were coached by the senior players of the team whilst coming through the grades so guys like Sean Solia were getting introduced to the premier grade players at an early age. When I had 1 season there way back in under 15s, we regularly had premier stalwarts like Darren Eckford and Jonny Bassett Graham taking our trainings and other members of the top side back then would also take other age group sides, a stark contrast to a club like Grafton where the junior system and coaching was very poor.

 

[CharlesLara]

It helps at Suburbs that most of them played at school together (I played a lot of cricket at school with most of their top side and reserves players), and if they didn't play at school, they were coached by the senior players of the team whilst coming through the grades so guys like Sean Solia were getting introduced to the premier grade players at an early age. When I had 1 season there way back in under 15s, we regularly had premier stalwarts like Darren Eckford and Jonny Bassett Graham taking our trainings and other members of the top side back then would also take other age group sides, a stark contrast to a club like Grafton where the junior system and coaching was very poor.

That made me feel old, stalwarts aha JBG one of my closet friends LOL.

and I 100% agree with your post, it is a big reason their club environment is like that is because everyone has bought into it, cause they are familiar with expectations and the people. Credit to them and to someone like Jeet, I tend to think if he wen to another school or played for a different club he might not have been in as good as environment, cause OG Jeet fresh off the plane and even after a few years could easily of been shut out. It helps that he could bat better than everyone else though at Avondale / Burbs (except Guppy, ironic stuff this).

 

[CharlesLara]

Well that's the other thing, the captains aren't usually those with tactical nouse or the ability to get the best out of the troops, they tend to be old stalwarts.

One season we literally let every single person have a match as captain and we won more games than the season before under the guy who had been captaining the prems for several seasons, mostly due to the fact that bowlers were treated on their merits and the batting order wasn't set in stone. But to be honest it really comes down to the club having a level of administrative control over what happens on the pitch. How many times do you see the best reserve player get selected to go to prems, only to bat 11, not bowl and be treated as a specialist fielder?

But ultimately, a lot of the younger kids don't want to stay and work hard to get their overs/runs. Being a spinner in club cricket in NZ must really be an annoying thing, because ultimately it doesn't matter who bowls spin, as long as they land it on the wicket with a half decent field setting, they'll take wickets here with how pathetic most club cricketers are at working a spinner around the wicket. If you're actually any good as a spinner, you won't really differentiate yourself, except to say you'll probably go for less runs and take fewer wickets because they simply can't hit your bowling.

Picked in the team as specialist spinner, bat 11, have Anaru Kitchen bowl before you before you bowl 6 overs then get taken off, rinse and repeat.

Oh couple the fact that NZ attitude is well, its seaming! It clearly wont spin (back the captain having no ****ing clue point), so basically up until Christmas the spinners are stop gap bowlers for the mandatory over before lunch and maybe a 6 over spell where if you dont pick up a fiver you trash. Only for the military medium skipper to bring himself on at the tail, bowl 15 overs of 8th stump tripe, get 3 wickets caught on the boundary and then tell himself he made the right decision. Or you get what you said, the batsmans who bowls leg spin when the sun is setting at practice, fancies himself picks up 2 fer at the tail and suddenly is a batting allrounder LOL

It's of no surprise that Aucklands Club Cricketer of year is usually won by all rounders who captain their sides.

 

[African Monkey]

That made me feel old, stalwarts aha JBG one of my closet friends LOL.

and I 100% agree with your post, it is a big reason their club environment is like that is because everyone has bought into it, cause they are familiar with expectations and the people. Credit to them and to someone like Jeet, I tend to think if he wen to another school or played for a different club he might not have been in as good as environment, cause OG Jeet fresh off the plane and even after a few years could easily of been shut out. It helps that he could bat better than everyone else though at Avondale / Burbs (except Guppy, ironic stuff this).

Haha yeah he was straight out of school back then.

 

[Athlai]

Young and M Bracewell scoring some runs hooray.

Also congrats to Woodcock on earning the most caps for a Wellington player.

Edit: it appears as I hoorayed Bracewell Jeets got offended and got him out. WAC

 

[Flem274*]

Leopard had a good game for CD A. Worrying Clarkson didn't bowl though. I like his bowling.

 

[Flem274*]

Auckland have made Robbie O open, Nicol is holding on at #3 and then they've fielded the Intent XI. Henry needs to do his cause some good here and cut through that.

Absolutely shocked to see Will Young out in the 60s again, and I'm surprised CD left Navin Patel in the A team. He looks a good bowler.

That's gotta be Jeets first big performance in NZ for a while.

 

[African Monkey]

Young and M Bracewell scoring some runs hooray.

Also congrats to Woodcock on earning the most caps for a Wellington player.

Edit: it appears as I hoorayed Bracewell Jeets got offended and got him out. WAC

Woodcock also became Wellington's highest ever run scorer in FC cricket.

 

[Athlai]

Woodcock also became Wellington's highest ever run scorer in FC cricket.

Hahaha. Ffs.