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***Official*** Australia in India 2017

Spark

Global Moderator
This argument that first innings top order runs are meaningless "downhill skiing" is as divorced from reality as anything I've read on this forum in a while. First innings top order runs are the most important runs, always, because not getting into a difficult situation by piling it on up top >>>>> trying to dig out of a tight situation, every time. If someone had stayed with Smith in the first innings, Australia would have won the game. Simple as that.

Blaming Smith is asinine contrarianism posting as "analysis" and I can't believe we've wasted whole pages on this garbage.
 

Chrish

State Vice-Captain
Time for all time Xi to tour India? current thoughts:

Hayden
Cook
Viv Richards
Steve Smith
Kallis
Sobers
A Flower
Swann
Steyn
Donald
Mcgrath
 
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Chrish

State Vice-Captain
Swann? Really?

Andy Flower probably needs to be there somewhere.
Which spinner would you play? Swann played a very important role in that series win and other spinners have been just plain awful to be included.

Fair point on Andy Flower. I will make the change.
 
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akilana

International 12th Man
Still, he needed a 50+ score when his team was behind or when the match was in balance, but it did not happen once and thus Australia almost lost 3 Tests out of 4. He was unsuccessful when situation was critical or when chips were down. It's always relatively easy to dominate when you are ahead or when you bat first with no scoreboard pressure and with first use of a flatter pitch. Smith is Tendulkar 2.0

He totally reminds me Tendulkar version 2.0 (the accumulator) although Smith is a much better accumulator. Yet the Tendulkar 2.0 would seldom do in a truly critical situation, his 100s were good but rarely great or truly match defining or impactful. And idk about Smith but at least this series, he's done what Tendulkar did often, which is score 100s when its relatively easy and then not even score 40 even once in all the other relatively tougher or tighter match situations/ conditions.

When backs were against the wall or match was really tight, Tendulkar too would crumble or get dismissed along with his team mates in one way or another... This is why Tendulkar despite his stats is NOT seen as the 2nd greatest Test batsman, its not about the stats. Up until 2011 after around 175 Tests, his test average was 57 at age of 38. Thats incredible, but he played relatively fewer match defining innings in the later half of his career, which affected his standing among the greats of the game, and it hurt India's success rate especially overseas.

Its more about when you perform. Umesh Yadav averaged 36+ for the season, yet we all know how invaluable he was, especially with his timely impactful breakthroughs. His true worth & avg would be much lower.

Therefore, **** the stats, they don't win you anything. I can recall India's tour of Australia 2007/08 where Tendulkar was amazing, he looked in top form, he scored 100s & 50s in each of the 1st innings of the 4 Tests.

It was roughly like 60, 160, 70, 150
yet he did nothing in any of the 2nd innings, not that 2nd innings runs are always valuable but given India and their overall performance, India tended to be in a tight situation come the 2nd innings and Tendulkar, despite his ability and form, would get out or crumble when behind.... or in those truly tough situations which could change or define the series... and thus India lost that series, just like Australia has lost this one, and in a team sport thats all that actually matters!!

Tendulkar failed to propel India to victory, Smith failed to propel Australia to victory despite both being in sublime form overall. When it truly mattered, they both failed. Thats all that ultimately counts.

2007/08 Australia win 2-1
2017 India win 2-1
This is nothing new. Have seen similar stuff posted about Sachin, Kallis etc
 

Top_Cat

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Just to be clear, you are saying the only explanation for someone not making runs in the second innings after making runs in the first is lack of motivation? The only explanation? The... only one?
In fairness, tiredness from spending ****ing hours at the crease scoring big tons in the first dig of games may possibly affect someone's motivation to score runs in the second a little.
 

Top_Cat

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Which spinner would you play? Swann played a very important role in that series win and other spinners have been just plain awful to be included.

Fair point on Andy Flower. I will make the change.
Benaud took a few poles in India.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
In other news, Steve Smith cannot be considered a modern great until he scores every single run in a Test series. That's when it really matters.
 

OverratedSanity

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Cook : lots of runs, legendary 2012 series
Hayden: 2001, nuff said
Steve Smith: 2017, nuff said
Younis Khan: 768 runs @ 76.8. Killed Kumble and Harbhajan in 05
Damien Martyn: Awesome throughout that 04 series on 4 different kinds of pitches
Andy Flower (wk): 820 runs @ 117. No brainer
Garry Sobers: Batting average of 99, bowling average of 26. Owned the spin quartet.
Richie Benaud: 5 5fer in 7 games is pretty handy
Jason Gillespie: Yeah, Im picking him over McGrath. Was the second biggest reason Australia won in 04, behind Martyn
Dale Steyn: Won 2 tests with two ridiculous spells in 08 and 2010.
Courtney Walsh: 43 wickets @ 18. Made Kambli his bitch.
 
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J_C

U19 Captain
Time for all time Xi to tour India? current thoughts:

Hayden
Cook
Viv Richards
Steve Smith
Kallis
Sobers
A Flower
Swann
Steyn
Donald
Mcgrath
Hayden
Cook
UAE Khan
Lloyd
Flower
Sobers
Botham
Davidson
Saqlain
Steyn
McGrath
 

burr

State Vice-Captain
Cook : lots of runs, legendary 2012 series
Hayden: 2001, nuff said
Steve Smith: 2017, nuff said
Younis Khan: 768 runs @ 76.8. Killed Kumble and Harbhajan in 05
Damien Martyn: Awesome throughout that 04 series on 4 different kinds of pitches
Andy Flower (wk): 820 runs @ 117. No brainer
Garry Sobers: Batting average of 99, bowling average of 26. Owned the spin quartet.
Richie Benaud: 5 5fer in 7 games is pretty handy
Jason Gillespie: Yeah, Im picking him over McGrath. Was the second biggest reason Australia won in 04, behind Martyn
Dale Steyn: Won 2 tests with two ridiculous spells in 08 and 2010.
Courtney Walsh: 43 wickets @ 18. Made Kambli his bitch.
Cook and Hayden batting together makes me giggle. Can't imagine they'd have much in common.
 

burr

State Vice-Captain
All this talk makes me want to do an all time Aus XI to tour India:

M Hayden
W Lawry
S Smith
K Hughes
A Border *
D Jones
A Gilchrist [+]
A Davidson
R Benaud
J Gillespie
G McGrath
Martyn not being in this is blasphemous.
 

Compton

International Debutant
I can tell believe someone is accusing Smith of lacking motivation to score runs. The guy has an obsession with accumulating runs that is borderline autistic.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's pretty funny that centurymaker's point about no tough runs was disproven pages back by Smith's innings in the third test where only Maxwell stood up with him.

On a typical Indian pitch, anything less that 400 in the first innings is almost a guaranteed loss. Only Maxwell stood up and scored runs with Smith. If Handscomb or Marsh had have made an extra 30 runs with Smith we likely would have cracked 500 and won the test.

There's your reason why we lost. It's not because Smith got an unlucky edge onto the stumps attempting to smash a rubbish ball to the fence.

The fact that Renshaw, a 20 year old with less than ten tests to his name was our second best batsman says it all really.
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
So what century really means is that until Smith bats like Bradman he is underperforming and not doing enough. So simple enough then there's plenty of bats who've done that.
 

vitalogy83

U19 Debutant
Look all I will say is if Aus are willing to release the useless-underperforming Smith, there is a Sri Lankan passport with his name on it. One-day service guaranteed.

SL have plenty of opportunities for him to come over and score a few meaningless centuries
 

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