*Official* Australia in decline thread

[Richard]

What was the worst Australian ODI side of recent memory?

One including Maher, Hayden, Lee, Bichel, Harvey, Watson and Hauritz.

 

[Richard]

but their isnt a reservoir of form inside a player which slowly drains away the longer you are in form.

Form is greatly affected by confidence...confidence which is gained by scoring runs in a way a batsman is happy with...and so being in form now actually means you will more likely be in form in a few weeks time.

And remember you can still be in form and in good nick and get out cheaply.

No-one can keep scoring runs - fact is there is a "reservoir" as you put it inside pretty much everyone (except Bradman, obviously - and Pietersen to date).
If you score 5 centuries in 5 innings you are likely to have a run of low scores sooner rather than later.
Or - if you average 81 in 20 Tests you are likely to have a lengthy sticky patch sometime.

 

[Richard]

its funny that when SA lose, they underperformed.

But its no disgrace losing to Australia, Australia were then and still are a vastly superior one day outfit compared to SA.

And where this worst one day Aussie team comes into it I dont know!!!

Unfortunately for you Richard is that this SA team just isnt as good as that one,and even they couldnt win the games that counted

Australia were not a superior outfit, and while they are now both teams are lesser (Australia because of the possible loss of their aura rather than lesser players) so the contest would more likely be equal.

 

[Richard]

it will be tough to find one, given that in the last 10 years Australia have only lost 40 ODI's...maybe we should be looking for the team that wasnt quite so good as the best, but still miles ahead of every other team in the world

Or maybe you should be looking beyond results, because there are other things that determine how good a team is.

 

[Scallywag]

Australia were not a superior outfit, and while they are now both teams are lesser (Australia because of the possible loss of their aura rather than lesser players) so the contest would more likely be equal.

Equal to a slaughter.

 

[Richard]

Lee is not substandard or over-rated - he would be the first name as a bowler on ANY teamsheet for any World side.

He wouldn't even be first on his own side.
And McGrath, Pollock and Murali would smote him almost any day of any week.

 

[Richard]

It's amazing how often you say the South Africans underperform.

Inconceivable that they're not actually anywhere near as good as you make them out?

Only times recently where they've underperformed have been against Australia (as England did 6 months before) and for a couple of series in New Zealand and at home to England.
Fact is, it's these 2 teams that aren't as good as people make them out - New Zealand who were exposed by England and England who might well soon be exposed by Australia and India.

 

[Richard]

Hogg record since the start of 2004 has by no mean been poor has taken 2 5 wikcets hauls during that period

And aside from those 5-fors he's done little.
And it may be convenient to take only from the start of 2004, but fact is it don't cut no mustard.
From 2003\04 is where I nominated.

 

[Richard]

its obvious isnt it, South Africa, who have recently just come off a run of 1 win in 14 games (that win was against B'dsh), and have just won a few vs Zimb and WI could murder the Aussies

They've won 9 in a row (excluding Zimbabwe) - the 26-game run (Bangladesh and Zimbabwe excluded) of 8 wins is but a distant memory.
Though I'd not back against the English-based to cling to it for as long as they can.

 

[Richard]

Which Australian ODI side in the last decade has been poor, please refresh my memory???

The one including Maher, Hayden, Lee, Bichel, Harvey, Watson and Hauritz.

 

[Swervy]

Or maybe you should be looking beyond results, because there are other things that determine how good a team is.

nope....what detirmines how good a team is is the results, nothing more, nothing less.

Games are not played on reputation, on with averages, its how you play on the field..if you dont score more than the opposition, you lose, at that time you didnt do what you had to do...and if you get dicked over a longer period of time, it suggests that you are struggling to compete in the way you are required..ie you arent good enough

 

[Richard]

convenient that, and if SA 'underperform' for a period of 5 years you'd still claim that they are as good as australia.
just curious, in the last 4 years, when has this SA ODI side ever 'performed'?

In ODIs...
In winning The Standard Bank Cup and The VB Series in the same season, in beating Pakistan and Sri Lanka at home, in having much the better of The TVS Cup, in coming back from 2-0 down in Pakistan, in beating West Indies, in thrashing England and then thrashing West Indies.
In Tests, indeed, they haven't performed much since the win in West Indies in 2000\01 - much to do with not having too many chances to do so.

 

[Swervy]

The one including Maher, Hayden, Lee, Bichel, Harvey, Watson and Hauritz.

Lee??? One of the best ODI bowlers of all time!!!!
Bichel...hero of the last world cup
Hayden..is he really bad


Look, all it shows is the superior depth of the Australians back then, that secondary players were better than a full strength SA team.

Just face it Richard..SA havent been that good in ODI's for a while now..and even when they were good, they couldnt win when they had to to.

 

[Richard]

nope....what detirmines how good a team is is the results, nothing more, nothing less.

Games are not played on reputation, on with averages, its how you play on the field..if you dont score more than the opposition, you lose, at that time you didnt do what you had to do...and if you get dicked over a longer period of time, it suggests that you are struggling to compete in the way you are required..ie you arent good enough

If you seriously think that reputation doesn't influence the outcome of a game you're delusional.
If you "get dicked" as so ineloquently put it over a long period of time, indeed you are not good enough - but in a single series, especially in ODIs, results can show little about who the better team.

 

[Swervy]

In ODIs...
In winning The Standard Bank Cup and The VB Series in the same season, in beating Pakistan and Sri Lanka at home, in having much the better of The TVS Cup, in coming back from 2-0 down in Pakistan, in beating West Indies, in thrashing England and then thrashing West Indies.
In Tests, indeed, they haven't performed much since the win in West Indies in 2000\01 - much to do with not having too many chances to do so.

havent had too many chances???? WTF

SA havent been brilliant in tests for ages now. SA this decade are probably the most overrated team in that everyone seems to expect them to do well, when in fact they tend to do just average..and its been going on for quite awhile now

 

[Richard]

Lee??? One of the best ODI bowlers of all time!!!!

No, one of (the, in fact) most overrated.

Bichel...hero of the last world cup

Wow, one single tournament.

Hayden..is he really bad

Yes.

Look, all it shows is the superior depth of the Australians back then, that secondary players were better than a full strength SA team.

No, it shows that in this instance SA weren't good enough to turn the exposing of some rubbish players into a series win.

Just face it Richard..SA havent been that good in ODI's for a while now..and even when they were good, they couldnt win when they had to to.

SA have been very good in their last 9 matches.
And it suggests they're on the way back.

 

[Richard]

havent had too many chances???? WTF

SA havent been brilliant in tests for ages now. SA this decade are probably the most overrated team in that everyone seems to expect them to do well, when in fact they tend to do just average..and its been going on for quite awhile now

No, they've had 3 series in the last 4 years that you wouldn't expect them to either walkover or lose comfortably - the Australia one (lost 1-5), the one in NZ (drew 1-1) and the home England one (lost 1-2).
And they have a chance to rectify that by thrashing NZ this winter.

 

[Richard]

his pro-South African bias is baffling....it would be interesting to find out where it comes from..so Richard..a question to you. Why are you so ridiculously biased toawrds South Africa?

Wouldn't a more appropriate question, to most English-based people, be why are you so ridiculously biased against them?
Thing is, of course, we already know why.
Why do I have a slight favoritism to South Africans? Ah, that's simple - South Africa (in 1998) were the first team aside from England to captivate my attention to the World game.
Much like dear old Colin and his aussies.

 

[Scallywag]

No, they've had 3 series in the last 4 years that you wouldn't expect them to either walkover or lose comfortably - the Australia one (lost 1-5), the one in NZ (drew 1-1) and the home England one (lost 1-2).
And they have a chance to rectify that by thrashing NZ this winter.

Sounds reasonable to me, SA are equal to Australia because they are going to thrash NZ this winter.

 

[Swervy]

No, one of (the, in fact) most overrated..

You are a joker arent you..he has been the singularly most dangerous ODI bowler in the world for quite some time

Wow, one single tournament.

It just so happens it was the World Cup...champion players raise their game when it matters..also rans dont (see South Africa)

Yes.

oh Hayden is really bad..just half of what is probably the second most successful opening partnership ever in ODI's..he himself has one of the highest averages..(I think 3rd) of any full time opening batsmen in ODI history..yeah he is REALLY bad

No, it shows that in this instance SA weren't good enough to turn the exposing of some rubbish players into a series win..

nuff said

SA have been very good in their last 9 matches.
And it suggests they're on the way back.

Look at it in its true context..England looked wornout at the end of that series..and lets face it, England arent the greatest one day team in the world..they had done their work that winter by winning the tests.

The WI's were in complete disarray..I wouldnt read too much into those wins