No hopers who made it

[ImpatientLime]

think vaughan and trescothick are good shouts here. both were fairly middling county batsman with very low 30s averages. tresco picked after a scout saw him play a monster innings and vaughan.....i forget his call up story. but both went from being completely forgettable county top order players to highly competent test players.

 

[nick-o]

Mike Brearley

Never selected until his late-30s, completely useless, average about 22.

Widely considered to be England's best-ever test Captain.

 

[Ju7]

think vaughan and trescothick are good shouts here. both were fairly middling county batsman with very low 30s averages. tresco picked after a scout saw him play a monster innings and vaughan.....i forget his call up story. but both went from being completely forgettable county top order players to highly competent test players.

Mike Brearley

Never selected until his late-30s, completely useless, average about 22.

Widely considered to be England's best-ever test Captain.

First chosen by England when he was 34 and was 41 when he captain in the 81 Ashes!!

 

[honestbharani]

Craig White came out of nowhere and was awesome for a couple of years, wasn't he?

 

[ImpatientLime]

Craig White came out of nowhere and was awesome for a couple of years, wasn't he?

he was and i'm trying to work out why after getting injured in the ashes he never played tests again. the summer of 2003 was the summer of graeme smith, england giving jimmeh his debut and gough having one final go of it v south africa before bowing out.

england ended that summer with a bowling attack of harmison, flintoff, giles, bicknell and anderson. by the winter of 2003 england were very much on their way to the lineup of hoggard, harmison, jones and flintoff but still feels harsh white was jettisoned.

 

[Blenkinsop]

Craig White was great, he was routinely clocked at 90mph+ and could hold a bat too. Maybe he never recovered fully from his injuries?

 

[Blenkinsop]

Thinking about it, there were a few county trundlers who came good in Test matches around 2010 ish, like Tim Bresnan, Chris Tremlett and Ryan Sidebottom. I don't remember them standing out too much at first class level but they did really well in the Test side.

 

[Jane Austen]

Gerald Smithson
John Beck
Alphonso Roberts

 

[Jane Austen]

Gerald Smithson
John Beck
Alphonso Roberts

This post was suggesting examples of young and talented players who came nowhere near fulfilling their potential rather than journeymen succeeding in Test cricket----David Steele is a prime example.

 

[Coronis]

Gooch wasn't a no hoper though , probably the most prolific batsman of all time if you combine his FC and List A runs

Tendulkar meanwhile, doesn’t even crack the top 15. (Greenidge and Richards at 10/11 are the highest ranked non English players)

 

[Athlai]

Does BJ Watling count? Never quite a no hoper as a Test opener but that's mostly because NZs were so **** that someone averaging around 30 that could stick around seemed passable. But ultimately ended up being our ATG WK Bat and for a lot of his career was probably the best in the world at that role.

 

[SteveNZ]

Makhaya Ntini

Nobody really talks about him amongst the best but he's got 390 Test wickets, relied mostly on being supremely fit and unrelenting rather than great skill.

Another guy like this is Neil Wagner. I borrowed the opinion of FC players who were certain he wouldn't make it at international level because he wasn't tall, didn't really swing it (apart from reverse), wasn't quick enough, didn't land the ball on the seam (and pissed other bowlers off) etc.

260 wickets at 27s

I see TH mentioned him earlier...he definitely wasn't a no-hoper but a lot of his fellow cricketers weren't giving him hope of being anything special (I mean Wags, not TH)

 

[Athlai]

Domestically it looked like Wagner would be a star from his record, then when he started playing Tests we had a pretty strong negative reaction. Wasn't quick enough. Didn't swing it. Just wasn't what we'd wanted.

Made us taste it

 

[SteveNZ]

Mark Richardson

100%.

My old school 1st XI's batting order at one stage was 10. Parore 11. Richardson. My classics teacher told Rigor he should give everything to bowling because that's the only way he'd make it, or words to that effect. Bare in mind those guys I think were 14 when they batted there, not in senior school.

 

[SteveNZ]

Has been mentioned in a few NZ threads but Matt Henry

2015 - 2020, 12 tests: 30 wickets @ 50.16
2021 - Aug 2025, 20 tests: 106 wickets @ 20.96

I feel like no-hoper is the wrong word for Henry. Can't think of one to fit. I saw Henry's List A debut at 18-19, he had that beautiful rhythmical run-up, and hit Tim McIntosh - the Test opener at the time - in the head and kept hurrying him. Made a T20 50 against the touring SA team, too.

But he ran into the Boult/Southee era and his early struggles were partly that he wasn't an effective first change bowler, but his attitude was severely lacking, as well. He idolised Southee and took on his laidback, 'have a laugh' persona which didn't suit his cricket. Has matured into the top echelon of world bowlers next to Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada etc.

 

[trundler]

Makhaya Ntini

Nobody really talks about him amongst the best but he's got 390 Test wickets, relied mostly on being supremely fit and unrelenting rather than great skill.

Ntini never took no for an answer

 

[Athlai]

I feel like no-hoper is the wrong word for Henry. Can't think of one to fit. I saw Henry's List A debut at 18-19, he had that beautiful rhythmical run-up, and hit Tim McIntosh - the Test opener at the time - in the head and kept hurrying him. Made a T20 50 against the touring SA team, too.

But he ran into the Boult/Southee era and his early struggles were partly that he wasn't an effective first change bowler, but his attitude was severely lacking, as well. He idolised Southee and took on his laidback, 'have a laugh' persona which didn't suit his cricket. Has matured into the top echelon of world bowlers next to Bumrah, Cummins, Rabada etc.

I thought he was a total spud until maybe 2019 at earliest

 

[Tom Flint]

Marvin Atapattu didn't have the best start to his test career.

Mark Butcher averaged 34.68 overall but 41+ from the Summer of 2021 to 2024.

 

[thierry henry]

Another guy like this is Neil Wagner. I borrowed the opinion of FC players who were certain he wouldn't make it at international level because he wasn't tall, didn't really swing it (apart from reverse), wasn't quick enough, didn't land the ball on the seam (and pissed other bowlers off) etc.

260 wickets at 27s

I see TH mentioned him earlier...he definitely wasn't a no-hoper but a lot of his fellow cricketers weren't giving him hope of being anything special (I mean Wags, not TH)

Maybe those were the whispers around the traps but I don't think that really translated in terms of performance (he always did pretty well in domestic cricket) or selection (he was perceived as a Black Cap in waiting and immediately rushed into the side). I just don't think you can reasonably say that Wagner's elevation to international level was any sort of "no hoper come good" situation when it was fully expected that he was likely to walk straight into the Black Caps once he had qualified.

I think similar whispers may have been behind his decision to leave SA. He performed well, made it through the grades, but there may have been a perception he didn't have the right attributes for higher honours and he foresaw that this perception might stall his progress.

Of course once we all actually saw him at international level and saw that he was probably 5kph slower than expected, didn't get much bounce (ironically given what was to come) and had a wonky seam position - at that point yeah, he fits the thread for sure.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Thinking about it, there were a few county trundlers who came good in Test matches around 2010 ish, like Tim Bresnan, Chris Tremlett and Ryan Sidebottom. I don't remember them standing out too much at first class level but they did really well in the Test side.

harsh on Tremlett. he was always very highly thought of, he just couldn't stay on the pitch long enough.