No hopers who made it

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

I don’t think Darren Pattinson ever thought he’d play for England!

 

[reyrey]

Depending on how you wanna look at it, but KP was a huge no hoper who really made it.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Depending on how you wanna look at it, but KP was a huge no hoper who really made it.

Wasn’t he a spinner when he was playing in South Africa, or was he as much of a spinner as Steve Smith was?

 

[Coronis]

U r only making me find more posts.

Clearly need your first post on each of the Fab Four

 

[Ali TT]

Wasn’t he a spinner when he was playing in South Africa, or was he as much of a spinner as Steve Smith was?

He played against England in a tour match in 99/00 as a spinner batting down there order. Think he was only 19 though at the time.

I think "New Zealand cricket" would be a good answer to this thread. Have long exceeded expectations and so many of their players been greater than their apparent records might suggest.

 

[Ali TT]

Clearly need your first post on each of the Fab Four

He always rated Ringo

 

[trundler]

Prodigies don't count. Players who merely exceeded expectations aren't quite no-hopers either. Only Henry, Harris, Wagner and Ishant have been valid examples so far. You have to improve by like 50% or more compared to the first half of your career to qualify for this thread imo.

 

[Ali TT]

Prodigies don't count. Players who merely exceeded expectations aren't quite no-hopers either. Only Henry, Harris, Wagner and Ishant have been valid examples so far. You have to improve by like 50% or more compared to the first half of your career to qualify for this thread imo.

Wasn't Ishant highly regarded as a youngster though?

I think Collingwood is a good shout - he was essentially injury cover who filled in a couple of holes in the England side at the start of his test career but then became undroppable as a middle order stalwart. His f/c average was something like 33 and he was perceived as a limited over specialist.

 

[trundler]

Wasn't Ishant highly regarded as a youngster though?

I think Collingwood is a good shout - he was essentially injury cover who filled in a couple of holes in the England side at the start of his test career but then became undroppable as a middle order stalwart. His f/c average was something like 33 and he was perceived as a limited over specialist.

Yeah I'll allow Collingwood and Mitchell too.

I'm not too familiar about Ben Duckett's FC career before Bazball but he was supposedly a middling middle order batter for ages, was he not?

 

[Coronis]

How about Misbah? Test debut in early 01 and didn’t become a test regular until late 07. Went on to be Pakistan’s greatest captain since Imran and one of their top 8 batsmen

 

[Ali TT]

Labuschagne had only recently come good in FC cricket before he replaced a concussed Smith. Although he was in good nick, I'm not sure anyone had hope he'd average close to 60 for a few years. Reverted to the mean now though

 

[thierry henry]

Feel like Wagner is being a bit misrepresented here. He fits the thread in the sense of having a mediocre start to his test career, but he certainly didn't come out of nowhere to play test cricket. He was a highly-rated youngster in South Africa and was only 21 when he last played there so his struggles to crack top tier FC cricket I feel are a little exaggerated. Sure, maybe he would've continued to have a frustrating time over there but then isn't that a story we've heard a million times about obviously talented players? He immediately walked into FC cricket in NZ and there was quite a lot of hype around him during his qualification period.

The reason he was initially a bit of a disappointment at test level was because there was that hype around him in NZ. The perception of him as this gritty underdog making the most of limited talents is more about the unorthodox version of Wagner that emerged during the course of his test career - that came out of left field, but the man himself didn't.

 

[Starfighter]

Prodigies don't count. Players who merely exceeded expectations aren't quite no-hopers either. Only Henry, Harris, Wagner and Ishant have been valid examples so far. You have to improve by like 50% or more compared to the first half of your career to qualify for this thread imo.

Not gonna try make a specific threshold, but people keep naming players who just took a few years to establish themselves at test level. I mean Sobers, who arguably debuted a couple of years too early? Whereas Harris spent the first five years of his career being not even first class standard.

 

[Athlai]

Wasn't Ishant highly regarded as a youngster though?

I think Collingwood is a good shout - he was essentially injury cover who filled in a couple of holes in the England side at the start of his test career but then became undroppable as a middle order stalwart. His f/c average was something like 33 and he was perceived as a limited over specialist.

Ishant was a prodigy because Indias bowling sucked.

He did also bowl decently on some hard road tours too.

 

[reyrey]

Colin Miller

 

[Prince EWS]

Mark Richardson

 

[Immenso]

Maybe Mitch Santner as a test player.

Although an almost decade long all-format player having a golden period, in his weakest format, is not off the scale. You could say he's had enough 'in-match practice' I guess.

Personally. I was always comfortable with Santner's role in that very settled and experienced NZ test team around the turn of the decade. While acknowledging that he and the second opener were the weakest links, but he had a role and he added balanced that enabled NZ to puruse their wagnerball tactics. E.g. they wouldn't have selected CdG without Santner, and you would have had Wagner bowling at different 'ball-agedness times' without CdG.

But now, maybe he is actually good in his own rights?

 

[Immenso]

This is actually quite a hard thread to think of good examples.

Several youthful prodigies who took time to come right don't seem good examples to me.

 

[Immenso]

I think a few of the recent test bowlers (of the last decade) as contenders. Are guys who benefited from concentrating on wobble ball rather than swing, as it became more widespread. E.g. Henry, and (I'm guessing) Lakmal?

I think Ishant Sharma benfited from technology and analysts. E.g. becoming a LHB specialist and bowling around the wicket to them (with his natural swing) with the knowledge that DRS and ball-tracking had turned a century's worth of assumed knowledge to kak.

 

[Prince EWS]

This is actually quite a hard thread to think of good examples.

Several youthful prodigies who took time to come right don't seem good examples to me.

I've been thinking players who started their domestic careers in one role and it didn't work out so they reinvented themselves and ended up Test standard in their new roles could be good examples.

So Mark Richardson, Colin Miller, Scott Styris, Nathan Astle, Thilan Samaraweera. Brad Hogg, Johan Botha and Colin Munro if applied to white ball cricket.

(and no, Steve Smith does not count, he was always a batting prodigy despite the mythology)