cnerd123
likes this
How surprising.
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Nathan Astle or Stephen Fleming. Who was the better batsman?
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
thierry henry
International Coach
I don't really think you needed to preface that post with a "nah" as I totally agree with you. All I said was he was a "liiiiiiiittle bit overrated", with numerous iiiiiiiis to emphasise it was only a small level of overrated-ness.
I've heard people really talk up Astle as an ODI player before, mostly because by NZ standards he scored so many centuries, so I was really just reacting to the very high praise I think he sometimes receives as an ODI player.
thierry henry
International Coach
To elaborate- Astle developed a reputation as an explosive hitter who also had a knack of scoring match-winning centuries. And I by no means deny that he was just that.
On the other hand, his average and s/r don't really reflect a particularly aggressive or big-scoring batsman. This is because he was very much susceptible to getting out cheaply and because he wasn't a genuinely fast-scoring batsman in ODIs either. He was a boundary-hitter, hard-handed, not great at rotating the strike, and tended to slow down rather than speed up as the innings progressed and fielders dropped back.
This approach worked well for him in terms of turning his starts into centuries and it also worked well for what the team wanted in that era, which was to try to get a RR going early and then to have an anchor. When he wasn't getting out early Astle played this role very adeptly. But he was also playing within limitations and there was usually an upper limit on what he could do in ODIs.
Very good player, won us matches, a crucial part of the team and possibly our best ODI bat of his era, I just think there's a healthy middle ground in acknowledging his shortcomings.
On the other hand, his average and s/r don't really reflect a particularly aggressive or big-scoring batsman. This is because he was very much susceptible to getting out cheaply and because he wasn't a genuinely fast-scoring batsman in ODIs either. He was a boundary-hitter, hard-handed, not great at rotating the strike, and tended to slow down rather than speed up as the innings progressed and fielders dropped back.
This approach worked well for him in terms of turning his starts into centuries and it also worked well for what the team wanted in that era, which was to try to get a RR going early and then to have an anchor. When he wasn't getting out early Astle played this role very adeptly. But he was also playing within limitations and there was usually an upper limit on what he could do in ODIs.
Very good player, won us matches, a crucial part of the team and possibly our best ODI bat of his era, I just think there's a healthy middle ground in acknowledging his shortcomings.
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He was also pretty terrible in World Cups.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Astle in my opinion.
No of international 100s
Astle 27 (2nd only to Ross Taylor)
Fleming 17 (6th amongst NZers). Note that Fleming played the 2nd most games for NZ behind Vettori.
Century ratios (innings per century)
Astle Test ratio - 12.45 ODI ratio 13.56
Fleming Test ratio - 21.00 ODI ratio 33.63
No of international 100s
Astle 27 (2nd only to Ross Taylor)
Fleming 17 (6th amongst NZers). Note that Fleming played the 2nd most games for NZ behind Vettori.
Century ratios (innings per century)
Astle Test ratio - 12.45 ODI ratio 13.56
Fleming Test ratio - 21.00 ODI ratio 33.63
Last edited:
Flem274*
123/5
The Boss isn't in the thread title though ****, despite him being NZs best ever ODI batsman.
Astle still makes my ODI XI.