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Les Ames vs Andy Flower

Better test cricketer?

  • Total voters
    7
MasterBlaster24

MasterBlaster24

U19 12th Man
Johan said:
Flower: Great Batsman, bad keeper

Ames: Good Batsman, ok keeper

Flower.
Click to expand...
AFAIK, Ames was a great wicketkeeper.
Wisden wrote at the time of his death that "was without a doubt the greatest wicketkeeper batsman the game has so far produced..."

17 times he scored more than 1000 runs in a first class season.


"His wicket-keeping and batting records:

  • the most dismissals in an English county cricket season (127 in 1929);
  • the most stumpings in an English season (64 out of 104 dismissals in 1932);
  • 1000 runs and 100 dismissals in each of three seasons (1928, 1929, 1932), a feat that has only been achieved once again in county cricket;
  • the only wicket-keeper to score 100 first-class centuries;
  • in 1935 he was the last Englishman to score 100 or more runs before lunch in a Test until Ian Bell did so seventy years later. Ames scored 123 runs in the session which is a record for most runs before lunch in Test cricket;
  • centuries against every English first-class county, apart from his own county, Kent;
  • the record 8th wicket partnership for England in Test cricket: 246 with Gubby Allen against New Zealand at Lord’s in 1931. This record was finally broken by Jonathan Trott and Stuart Broad on 28 August 2010 in the Fourth Test against Pakistan when they set the new record of 332 runs.
  • the first wicket-keeper to score a century at No.7 in Test Cricket (copied)
Saying that Ames was Just an ok wicketkeeper is seriously underrating his wicketkeeping skills, IMO.
 
Last edited:
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
MasterBlaster24 said:
#note-Les Ames did not have the number of deliveries recorded, but he scored at about 50 runs per hour, during a time when they bowled about 20 overs per hour, so rough strike rate of 85-similar to Gilchrist.
(copied)
Click to expand...
He had a strike rate of ~45. That runs per hour figure is definitely inaccurate, and likely talking about a single innings, rather than his overall career, whats the source for this? Just because they bowled faster back then does not make their strike rates equivalent in any way. Maurice Tate for example who played in the same era struck at about ~75 and only scored at 44 runs per hour, the highest number for anyone with 1k runs.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
btw despite Ames’ impressive FC record, I think his test record shows his batting has probably become a little overrated. In general he averaged 46 at home 37 away. Then against Australia he averaged 44 at home and 17 away (2 full tours away). Bit of a home tracker.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Coronis said:
btw despite Ames’ impressive FC record, I think his test record shows his batting has probably become a little overrated. In general he averaged 46 at home 37 away. Then against Australia he averaged 44 at home and 17 away (2 full tours away). Bit of a home tracker.
Click to expand...
His Australia away record is genuinely confusing since Australia was by far easier to bat in.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
I think in general it was mostly true.
Click to expand...
Most of the higher scoring series were in England, at least in the Ashes. In no small part was this due to Bradman, who averaged 114 in England between the wars, vs 88 in Australia. There was also Bodyline ofc, though that shouldn’t have had a major effect on English batting.
 
MasterBlaster24

MasterBlaster24

U19 12th Man
Coronis said:
He had a strike rate of ~45. That runs per hour figure is definitely inaccurate, and likely talking about a single innings, rather than his overall career, whats the source for this? Just because they bowled faster back then does not make their strike rates equivalent in any way. Maurice Tate for example who played in the same era struck at about ~75 and only scored at 44 runs per hour, the highest number for anyone with 1k runs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, maybe I'm wrong on that strike rate thing. I copied that from a old blog. 😐
MasterBlaster24 said:
AFAIK, Ames was a great wicketkeeper.
Wisden wrote at the time of his death that "was without a doubt the greatest wicketkeeper batsman the game has so far produced..."

17 times he scored more than 1000 runs in a first class season.


"His wicket-keeping and batting records:

  • the most dismissals in an English county cricket season (127 in 1929);
  • the most stumpings in an English season (64 out of 104 dismissals in 1932);
  • 1000 runs and 100 dismissals in each of three seasons (1928, 1929, 1932), a feat that has only been achieved once again in county cricket;
  • the only wicket-keeper to score 100 first-class centuries;
  • in 1935 he was the last Englishman to score 100 or more runs before lunch in a Test until Ian Bell did so seventy years later. Ames scored 123 runs in the session which is a record for most runs before lunch in Test cricket;
  • centuries against every English first-class county, apart from his own county, Kent;
  • the record 8th wicket partnership for England in Test cricket: 246 with Gubby Allen against New Zealand at Lord’s in 1931. This record was finally broken by Jonathan Trott and Stuart Broad on 28 August 2010 in the Fourth Test against Pakistan when they set the new record of 332 runs.
  • the first wicket-keeper to score a century at No.7 in Test Cricket (copied)
Saying that Ames was Just an ok wicketkeeper is seriously underrating his wicketkeeping skills, IMO.
Click to expand...
FTFY.
 
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