Lehmann Dropped For Ashes

[Tom Halsey]

and thats despite the fact that hes been averaging over 40 in every series since and including the last ashes? no perhaps i wouldnt have rated him as high as i do after last year, but really everyone has their peaks, and im pretty sure you wouldnt be rating ponting as highly as you do now after 2001.

I’d rate Ponting higher than Martyn because he’s had more extremely good years – Martyn’s had 1.

 

[sledger]

Me too. Ponting's the best batsman in that team

thats debateable, but hes better than martyn

 

[tooextracool]

I’d rate Ponting higher than Martyn because he’s had more extremely good years – Martyn’s had 1.

really? martyn hasnt had a poor year since his return to test cricket in 2000.

2000 4 8 4 2 0 *89 321 80.25
2001 10 14 4 4 3 *124 658 65.80
2002 11 16 0 4 2 133 657 41.06
2003 6 9 1 2 0 *66 339 42.38
2004 14 26 2 5 6 161 1353 56.38
2005 4 4 0 1 1 165 302 75.50

now i dont know about you, but thats considerably more than 1 good year.

 

[psxpro]

Ponting is better than martyn imo but martyn is amazing too.
Ponting, Gilchrist and martyn are just amazing batsmen.

 

[Craig]

whats ponting's average in india? 2 ?3?
seriously, martyn has no weaknesses against any kind of bowling, i think id much rather have him at the crease anywhere in the world, instead of having someone with an obvious weakness against spin

Even though he has runs in Sri Lanka and he has got runs in ODIs against India in India? It maybe a different game and ball and uniform, but the grounds are the same, the bowlers are the same are they not?

 

[Mister Wright]

Even though he has runs in Sri Lanka and he has got runs in ODIs against India in India? It maybe a different game and ball and uniform, but the grounds are the same, the bowlers are the same are they not?

The fielding positions are different though Craig. Ponting cannot defend to quality spin from both ends. Throw in a few bat pads, leg slip, 2 slips, Kumble at one end, Singh at the other - you'll have him out in no time.

 

[tooextracool]

Even though he has runs in Sri Lanka and he has got runs in ODIs against India in India? It maybe a different game and ball and uniform, but the grounds are the same, the bowlers are the same are they not?

pitches are different, bowlers bowl to different fields- i'd be extremely surprised if you saw a short leg or silly point in ODIs, the situation is completely different.

 

[Mister Wright]

pitches are different, bowlers bowl to different fields- i'd be extremely surprised if you saw a short leg or silly point in ODIs, the situation is completely different.

I have on occasion seen a short-leg in a ODI, but it is very rare.

 

[cameeel]

And its never worked very well

 

[Eclipse]

To be fair to Ponting he never really had the chance to prove he could play better in india against Inida last time..

And his strengths are far greater than Martyn's even if he does have a weekness agains spin..

 

[tooextracool]

To be fair to Ponting he never really had the chance to prove he could play better in india against Inida last time..

And his strengths are far greater than Martyn's even if he does have a weekness agains spin..

even though martyn has an extremely good average in every country and vs every country in the world.

 

[aussie]

The only better players than him between 1998 and 2004 were Ponting and Stephen Waugh.
He showed quite clearly why he was recalled when Mark Waugh was dropped by his play in the first 15 Tests after it, in which he averaged 60.04.
I find it almost beyond belief that people are patronising him the way of this thread.
It's a shame things went the way they did for the next 7 matches after that, and, as Mark Waugh found-out, you can't expect to go like that for long and keep your place, especially with people of Katich's class knocking on the door.
But seriously - if anyone thinks Clarke will give us more headaches than Lehmann then they need their heads examined.

Disagree richard, Martyn, Gilchrist & Hayden were better than him during that period for sure againts most attacks, most conditons and in both forms of the game

 

[aussie]

if you asked someone before 2004 who is better Ponting or Martyn, everyone in their right minds who knows cricket would say ponting.But looking at marty's performances since he has matured it a top class player who has no apparant weakness, i for one would give Ponting the edge because he is probably more destructive than Martyn

 

[cameeel]

Yet his overall average warranted him remaining in the team

 

[aussie]

Yet his overall average warranted him remaining in the team

um....... are you talking to me, if you are i dont get you, if not nevermind

 

[Richard]

lehman has probably been the weakest aussie batsman in ecent years.

No, he's been so for his last 5 or 6 games at most.

 

[Richard]

I'm a bit annoyed really. I was looking forward to seeing freddy yorking him leg stump for a duck when he goes for a wander ala lara in this years ashes.

I'd much prefer see anyone else Yorked.

 

[Richard]

Lehmann on his day could be a very good player, but he was never as good as Damien Martyn is right now. Over the last decade, I rate Steve Waugh first, Ponting second and Martyn third in terms of overall ability with the bat. Other players like Justin Langer, Adam Gilchrist, Matthew Hayden, Michael Slater etc higher than Lehmann as well. Lehmann is more in the Mark Waugh sort of category, a mercurial player who could do anything but could also pointlessly throw his wicket away.

Hayden and Slater better than Lehmann!
If Lehmann's mercurial Slater certainly is.
And Lehmann certainly was not enigmatic in this period here, where he had a quite magnificent average, conquering some extremely difficult conditions. How he managed to f*ck-up against New Zealand and Pakistan I don't know, but it's a great shame.
Lehmann is every bit as good against seam and spin as Martyn, too.

 

[Richard]

if you asked someone before 2004 who is better Ponting or Martyn, everyone in their right minds who knows cricket would say ponting.But looking at marty's performances since he has matured it a top class player who has no apparant weakness, i for one would give Ponting the edge because he is probably more destructive than Martyn

And things will probably change again in the next 12 months, too.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Hayden and Slater better than Lehmann!
If Lehmann's mercurial Slater certainly is.
And Lehmann certainly was not enigmatic in this period here, where he had a quite magnificent average, conquering some extremely difficult conditions. How he managed to f*ck-up against New Zealand and Pakistan I don't know, but it's a great shame.
Lehmann is every bit as good against seam and spin as Martyn, too.

Whoopdedoo... 9 tests with an average of 58. He played on three tough turners in Sri Lanka and did really well, and one seaming wicket where he was the best batsman, and five flat wickets. And he averaged... 58. Off the exact same 9 tests, Hayden scored 1301 runs @ 86.73. Even if you take out his 380, he averaged 61.40, higher than Lehmann's average in the period you pick out as his ultimate peak. Same conditions for both players exactly. Lehmann scored 2 hundreds to Hayden's 1 in Sri Lanka in fairly tough turning conditions, and Lehmann outperformed Hayden on the seaming wicket in Darwin with two scores around 50 compared to Hayden's 37 and 2. On the flat decks, Hayden left Lehmann for dead.

And as far as picking out one arbitrary area where a player did well and using it to prove their class, between the 1st Indian test in 2001 and the 1st Sri Lankan test in Sri Lanka in 2004, Hayden scored 4123 runs @ 73.63.

I agree that Lehmann is a better player than the bulk of his test career might suggest, but he had CLEAR weaknesses and your refusal to acknowledge them doesn't do you any favours. To suggest he is even in the same league as Martyn against pace bowling is a joke.