Keith Miller vs Viv Richards

[Johan]

Better Cricketer?

 

[Johan]

Miller for me, A bit underrated on this forum.

 

[Coronis]

lol @ Viv votes

 

[subshakerz]

Good one Viv. Miller falls below top tier bowlers and bats.

 

[kyear2]

One was a top 5 bat of all time, one of the greatest outfielders ever and an AT slip.

Not to mention a Wisden top 5 player of the century.

Miller doesn't crack ATG status at any particular skill.

 

[Johan]

Miller doesn't crack ATG status at any particular skill.

He is a ATG all rounder

 

[subshakerz]

Not to mention a Wisden top 5 player of the century.

There is no point bringing Wisden here unless you take their list seriously. Which you don't when it comes to Barry.

 

[Coronis]

There is no point bringing Wisden here unless you take their list seriously. Which you don't when it comes to Barry.

I believe in the past he has called it completely flawed

 

[subshakerz]

I believe in the past he has called it completely flawed

He actually went into their voting methodology in a long rant. Now he flips on a dime to use it to support Viv.

These double standards are why it's hard to tell what he really believes.

 

[kyear2]

He is a ATG all rounder

This now is something that interests me, for two reason tbh.

Can you be an AT all rounder without being ATG at something. At least Miller was a great bowler, and he's 5th for me as an all rounder and yes ATG. But it does disqualify guys like Kapil and a few others.

But more pressingly, I'm doing over my rankings (NFL draft for me in the mood) and my top tier is normally set aside for the top tier guys who are elite (GOAT discussion with the ball and BAB candidate as a bat) in their primary disciple.

I did however add a 9th player and unsure about the next. So genuine question, and I may make this a poll, is Imran an elite all rounder to compare to a top tier Best after Bradman candidate with the bat, or GOAT candidate with the ball?

And if he is, isn't guys like Hammond and Kallis as well? As cricketers I have him and Hammond really close. Same borderline top 10 in primary, Imran the batsman ahead of Hammond the bowler, but Hammond being the GOAT slip, brings him even if not surpasses.

Thoughts?

 

[kyear2]

I believe in the past he has called it completely flawed

It is incredibly flawed, and I've stated that multiple times.

The top two were the only definitive positions and to go down the line counting votes into the single digits is a fool's errand.

It was conjured up to determine the top 5 and that's what I take from it.

But basically after the top 2, it's a toss up and not fully determinative.

 

[Coronis]

It is incredibly flawed, and I've stated that multiple times.

The top two were the only definitive positions and to go down the line counting votes into the single digits is a fool's errand.

It was conjured up to determine the top 5 and that's what I take from it.

But basically after the top 2, it's a toss up and not fully determinative.

So why even bring it up?

 

[kyear2]

So why even bring it up?

It's literally stated in my response.

It was conjured up to determine a top 5, hence what I take from it.

But I'll also acknowledge that after the top two, it's hardly definitive. And would he have made my top 5, likely not.

Warne confuses me more, but that's another subject all together..

 

[subshakerz]

This now is something that interests me, for two reason tbh.

Can you be an AT all rounder without being ATG at something?

Yes of course. Based on output in the case of Botham or worldclass skill plus good in secondary discipline for Miller.

 

[subshakerz]

It's literally stated in my response.

It was conjured up to determine a top 5, hence what I take from it.

But I'll also acknowledge that after the top two, it's hardly definitive. And would he have made my top 5, likely not.

Warne confuses me more, but that's another subject all together..

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either it's somewhat reputable and worth quoting or it's junk.

 

[subshakerz]

So genuine question, and I may make this a poll, is Imran an elite all rounder to compare to a top tier Best after Bradman candidate with the bat, or GOAT candidate with the ball?

You're asking this on CW where Imran gets rated 3rd best cricketer ever.