Joe Root vs Mark Waugh

[capt_Luffy]

I can’t take criticism of his record in SA seriously. SL have a weak attack. He actually did well on his tough tour to SL against peak Herath.

You then have to take his critisism on England and India seriously, right?? Honestly, also not a huge fan of writing off serieses just because the player was "too young" or something; I can cut them some slack, but can't write it off. His record in Australia is also kinda average for a player of his status and he only really dominated Pakistan away on roads, alongside textbook minnows; and no one else in his entire career...... I love KW, but his away record is too **** to rank him really high right now.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I try not to do the subshakerz check list thing these days. I don't really care if his record in SL is poor or not it could simply down to it being sample sized and there is no reason why he shouldn't score there

I just think, and this is not even stats thing, that Aus, Eng, Ind and SA have been notoriously difficult for visiting batsmen in recent times for various reasons and I tend to rate players who do well in those countries comparatively higher

Just that KW not averaging 45 in any of those places bothers me

I included SL as well as he might had faced some sub continental troubles, it very could had been sample size, I believe all his averages would definitely rise away on playing more, but that's another thing..... Subs' checklists are mostly all trash, but I think a batsman of his calibre shouldn't fail everywhere but at home, Pakistan or against minnows.

What bothers me is him not pulling even a decent 35 in anywhere of England, SA and India; and him not being particularly exceptional in Australia as well.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

His “failure” in SA was when he was 22 ffs

 

[capt_Luffy]

His “failure” in SA was when he was 22 ffs

As I said, I could cut him some slack; but can't write off anything once you're given a cap. Miandad was probably among the World's best at 22, but we don't really give him extra points for that; and Sachin had been a regular for over half a decade before his 22nd birthday.

 

[Gob]

Didn't he play in South Africa again around 2017? Couldn't be bothered to check

Remember Philander destroying NZ once or twice

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Didn't he play in South Africa again around 2017? Couldn't be bothered to check

Remember Philander destroying NZ once or twice

He averaged like 42 on that tour against Steyn , Philander, and Rabada. Would have had a ton if he didn’t run out of partners

 

[Gob]

Haha just checked Jayawardena actually has superior records to KW in all of India, England and South Africa and that bloke gets crucified for being an htb

Slightly different era but England and South Africa were difficult places to tour even in the 00s

 

[capt_Luffy]

He averaged like 42 on that tour against Steyn , Philander, and Rabada. Would have had a ton if he didn’t run out of partners

You meant to say he practically played a two matches, scored literally 2* in the first and had a genuinely good 77 in the second match alongside a 5; which NZ lost by an innings...... Btw he wasn't ran out, Ross Taylor was. As I said, I can give him slack for failing in 1 or 2 challenging conditions; not everyone single one of them but Australia.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

You meant to say he practically played a two matches, scored literally 2* in the first and had a genuinely good 77 in the second match alongside a 5; which NZ lost by an innings...... Btw he wasn't ran out, Ross Taylor was.

I didn’t say he was run out. I said he ran out of partners.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Haha just checked Jayawardena actually has superior records to KW in all of India, England and South Africa and that bloke gets crucified for being an htb

Slightly different era but England and South Africa were difficult places to tour even in the 00s

In all fairness, Jayawardene has a poor record in NZ, Australia and UAE as well; on top of being bad everywhere KW was but IND and SL (though he averages 60+ in both).

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Haha just checked Jayawardena actually has superior records to KW in all of India, England and South Africa and that bloke gets crucified for being an htb

Slightly different era but England and South Africa were difficult places to tour even in the 00s

I guess the difference is that you could tell Jayawardene wasn’t great against quality pace by watching him play while Williamson doesn’t really have any major weaknesses IMO. I’m not really a fan of analysis by checklist unless it shows some flaw in a players game tbh.

 

[Gob]

I guess the difference is that you could tell Jayawardene wasn’t great against quality pace by watching him play while Williamson doesn’t really have any major weaknesses IMO. I’m not really a fan of analysis by checklist unless it shows some flaw in a players game tbh.

Well he nick balls around the off stump when there is extra zip of the wicket. He is known for his low soft handed dabs to 3rd man on slower NZ wickets but not so much when it zips of the pitch. There is a difference between a good looking technique and a good technique although this isn't directed at KW

Anyway it doesn't feel right bagging a bloke who has made 7 tons back to back but he needs at least one more great series in the four countries otherwise I'm putting him in atvg category

 

[PlayerComparisons]

You’ve got be pretty good if you’re averaging 55.9 in this era. The guy will probably end up averaging like 53-54 with like 40 test tons in a bowler friendly era. Good enough to be ATG for me personally but it’s all pretty subjective.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

What?
Root is an ATG, M Waugh isn't. Pretty simple.

An ODI comparison would be close though.

 

[Aidan11]

Root is the best player in his family.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea I think Root probably wins this now

 

[Socerer 01]

Yea I think Root probably wins this now

dude you cant be this reactionary

 

[kyear2]

That was hilarious, but on a serious note and as some has suggested, that's why we shouldn't be doing these comps with players who's legacy are still in the balance.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

That was hilarious, but on a serious note and as some has suggested, that's why we shouldn't be doing these comps with players who's legacy are still in the balance.

Agreed things can change quickly

 

[Molehill]

dude you cant be this reactionary

One killer line on commentary and Jnr could be back in this....