Dendarii
International Debutant
We had Nicky Boje and Pat Symcox as our spinners...Meh. We went from Balwinder Sandhu to Salil Ankola to Debashish Mohanty to Ishant Sharma. Beat that.
We had Nicky Boje and Pat Symcox as our spinners...Meh. We went from Balwinder Sandhu to Salil Ankola to Debashish Mohanty to Ishant Sharma. Beat that.
But Murali want the best player of this century so that doesn't really make sense. Gilchrist was the best player this century. He totally changed how we think about wicket keepers in the modern game.And of course Kallis is an ATG. He's the 2nd best player of the 21st century behind Murali imo
I agree with everything except the bolded.When by majority opinion the only person considered a greater allrounder than Kallis is Sir Garfield Sobers, you pretty much make any side with Sir Garfield Sobers in it anyway. While I accept there maybe 10 batsmen in history better than Kallis I don't think they are better enough than him to keep him out of many ATG team picks. Kallis's biggest detriment was he was considered a stodgy player, but what is always ignored was that he played most of his career with a brittle SA batting lineup, so long live stodginess.
Only player with a higher average than him with over a hundred tests is Sangakkara. And Kallis played half his innings in SA where it is considered one of the most difficult places to bat, particularly when he started his career.
(End biased rant!!!)
You disagree that it is ignored or that he played most of his career with a brittle line-up? (serious question)I agree with everything except the bolded.
Disagree that it was brittle. I've heard that opinion among many SA fans and I've never properly understood it tbh. Cullinan and Kirsten were really good and the depth was insane.You disagree that it is ignored or that he played most of his career with a brittle line-up? (serious question)
The SA team did not have a great number of great batsmen until about 2007/2008. Kallis career was from 1995-2013 first ten years he was the only rock, and maybe Kirsten. SA had long batting line-ups because of the number of allrounders, but not solid. 2010 was peak when we had Smith, Amla, Kallis, DeVillers.
I just have many (fond!) memories of the SA team being 100/4 120/5 getting to 350 or 400 because Kirsten/Kallis scored 100 and the lower order scored 100+. Which is great but winning totals tend to be 450+. Of course our lower average scores was compensated by our pretty decent bowling attack . SA have always been competitive but not always great in the batting. Since about 2005 until recently well we had some great batting lineups.Disagree that it was brittle. I've heard that opinion among many SA fans and I've never properly understood it tbh. Cullinan and Kirsten were really good and the depth was insane.
I could be wrong about this, but I think there was a test match he played against Pakistan who were lacking any big guns for that match, and he had scored more runs, taken more wickets and held more catches than the entire Pakistan side combined.Preferring the likes of Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar as a batsman is as much personal choice as it is based on fact for me. By pure weight of runs he is at least the match of any of his peers, and the fact he was a reliable third or fourth fast bowler (depending on the make-up of the XI) means his overall contribution to the team is almost unmatched. Handy slipper too if you needed one
I do think Cullinan can get a bit of a raw deal from South African fans as his legacy gets tarnished because of his struggles against Warne, but the middle order was the weak link in the South African batting line up for a long time, with most of the guys you've mentioned averaging under 40, and it often felt like it was up to the lower order to save the day.Also disagree that RSA had brittle batting Pre 2007. They probably had the 3rd best batting lineup in the world after Australia & India. Along with Cullinan, Kallis, Smith & Gary Kirsten there was Gibbs, Wessels, Peter Kirsten, Hudson, McKenzie, Cronje, Rhodes, Klusener & McMillan. Bit harsh to call that brittle.
Love the hyperbole...In relation to some of the other teams of the time RSA had some serous batting strength with Kallis, Smith, Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan & Prince all averaging over 40.
Plus you lot had Cronje's captaincy skills, Rhodes' fielding prowess (which could potentially save somewhere between 10 - 100 runs per innings) & great supporting players like McMillan, Pollock, Klusener, Symcox & Boucher.
But I understand, you South Africans are arguably the most competitive cricketing nation in the world!
Ya never know... what if Rhodes took an absolute blinder of a catch to dismiss Tendulkar, then followed that up with a run out of Dravid, whilst turning 4's into 2's in the outfield all day & stopping the batsmen from running quick singles with his speed in the infield.Love the hyperbole...
The great thing about Cronje & Rhodes was the clutch runs they scored.In relation to some of the other teams of the time RSA had some serous batting strength with Kallis, Smith, Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan & Prince all averaging over 40.
Plus you lot had Cronje's captaincy skills, Rhodes' fielding prowess (which could potentially save somewhere between 10 - 100 runs per innings) & great supporting players like McMillan, Pollock, Klusener, Symcox & Boucher.
But I understand, you South Africans are arguably the most competitive cricketing nation in the world!
Although Cullinan and Prince never played together, which perhaps suggests why there are differing perspectives between South Africans and non-South Africans. It's very possible to point to the players that South Africa has had available in the past, and there are certainly some good batsmen amongst them, but dig a bit deeper into teams that actually took the field and there will be names like Rudolph, Dippenaar, and Van Jaarsveld. It was only really once Amla and De Villiers had established themselves that we now had a batting line-up that could be relied on consistently all the way down the specialist batsmen.In relation to some of the other teams of the time RSA had some serous batting strength with Kallis, Smith, Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan & Prince all averaging over 40.