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Ian Botham vs Dennis Lillee

Botham vs Lillee

  • Total voters
    23
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
capt_Luffy said:
23.73. Also I can't see a scenario where someone would rate a SC batsman or bowler in top 10 ever, no matter how successful they are in India and Pakistan, if they never tour SENA and average a 100 in their only Australia series, no matter how flat. I could never rate Lillee on par with Steyn or Imran honestly.
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I agree with your argument. Lillee is behind Steyn and Imran because ultimately performance across conditions matters as the ultimate challenge.

He is ahead of Ambrose though who doesn't have a real SC record outside of mixed returns outside Aus and England.
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Regular
Lillee vs Ambrose is interesting

Two different styles of bowlers
Two bowlers who barely played in Asia
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
subshakerz said:
I agree with your argument. Lillee is behind Steyn and Imran because ultimately performance across conditions matters as the ultimate challenge.

He is ahead of Ambrose though who doesn't have a real SC record outside of mixed returns in Pakistan.
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He isn't in the same tier as Ambrose, who is better than him virtually everywhere they played in. Better in Australia, in England, in West Indies, in Pakistan, everywhere but NZ probs, which was minnowish in Lillee's time.
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Regular
Not sure how we can compare their records when they played in two different periods(Lillee in 1970s and Curtly in 1990s)
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
Lillee is just Murali, if Murali took way less wickets and at a much higher average at home, toured England and NZ, and Australia without all the obvious caveats.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
capt_Luffy said:
He isn't in the same tier as Ambrose, who is better than him virtually everywhere they played in. Better in Australia, in England, in West Indies, in Pakistan, everywhere but NZ probs, which was minnowish in Lillee's time.
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Sorry but this is just typical blind lazy average reading.

There is no way Ambrose is better in England for example. Nor is Ambrose that great at home in WI compared to Lillee at home. Pakistan is too small a sample for Lillee and Ambrose there mixed too.

Ambrose is ATG in Aus, I will give him that, but that's the only argument he has in favor of him and it's frankly overdone because he didn't have the skillset to be nearly the same force anywhere else.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Sorry but this is just typical blind lazy average reading.

There is no way Ambrose is better in England for example. Nor is Ambrose that great at home in WI compared to Lillee at home. Pakistan is too small a sample for Lillee and Ambrose there mixed too.

Ambrose is ATG in Aus, I will give him that, but that's the only argument he has in favor of him and it's frankly overdone because he didn't have the skillset to be nearly the same force anywhere else.
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Blah blah it's all to downgrade Ambrose. Lillee is if Ashwin only played at home and SL and averages way higher, and had one SA tour, significantly worse than any of his SA tours.
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Regular
Tier 1 : Marshall. Hadlee. McGrath. Steyn
Tier 2 : Ambrose. Donald. Imran. Holding. Lillee. Akram.
There is a small difference in bowlers in same tier
 
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