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How old were you....
- Thread starter Mr Mxyzptlk
- Start date
Shut-down!
David
International 12th Man
****. Fan. Hit.
Lovely lads.
Anyway, the problem here with retirement is that it's unespected by most of the older blokes. It was never in the picture for us. Now, I know it's hard for the younger ones to understand, but when you've been 9 seasons with a cricketing "avatar" as it were, and now all of a sudden realise that unlike the 9 seasons ingrained into you of being able to continue, you have to retire said avatar. Now, this to many is punishment, we've been in the system, more or less active for so long, and now all of a sudden we realise we're not immortal.Now, we're faced with getting old, getting worse, getting booted out of the system we've so long been a part of. To be honest, it can feel like a kick in the guts.
Now many people have stated/pointed out that we'll become gods etc, but you have to realise that your development does stop, after a number of seasons you stop improving. After a while of loyalty as it were, everyone will be on the same playing field. There is plenty of changing in the test squad, so it's not like your spot is cemented, things will change, and I think that natural retirement (ie people leaving the forum) is enough. Not many people have the commitment to stay around for such a long time anyway, so why penalise those who do?
Hope this makes sense.
Lovely lads.
Anyway, the problem here with retirement is that it's unespected by most of the older blokes. It was never in the picture for us. Now, I know it's hard for the younger ones to understand, but when you've been 9 seasons with a cricketing "avatar" as it were, and now all of a sudden realise that unlike the 9 seasons ingrained into you of being able to continue, you have to retire said avatar. Now, this to many is punishment, we've been in the system, more or less active for so long, and now all of a sudden we realise we're not immortal.Now, we're faced with getting old, getting worse, getting booted out of the system we've so long been a part of. To be honest, it can feel like a kick in the guts.
Now many people have stated/pointed out that we'll become gods etc, but you have to realise that your development does stop, after a number of seasons you stop improving. After a while of loyalty as it were, everyone will be on the same playing field. There is plenty of changing in the test squad, so it's not like your spot is cemented, things will change, and I think that natural retirement (ie people leaving the forum) is enough. Not many people have the commitment to stay around for such a long time anyway, so why penalise those who do?
Hope this makes sense.
Loony BoB
International Captain
Ask again in two year's time and I think you'll have your reason, because I think there are enough people in here that will stick around for that long.
Don't get me wrong, I do understand where you're coming from - it's not a difficult thing to get your head around. Eventually, this will affect us all, no matter how much heart we put into the place. I just think that it's not so much hard for us to understand as it is hard for yourselves to accept this kind of change after having the belief of immortality for so long.
I also think that the fact that people see it as a punishment to not be one of the best as a blow to CW, as I think that people should love this league regardless of where they stand in their Dev League side, let alone to the international side.
If yourselves all thought that the 'changing of the guard' would happen regardless then I don't see why you would see this proposal as a problem, given that you would be leaving the side regardless anyway when your 'change of the guard' time comes along.
I definitely see the point of not being able to carry on with your own 'persona' though... ie NS Pickup, RJ Malone, etc. As a possible compromise... what if eventual retirement was to apply to the international side only, seeing as this problem would only ever apply to the international side (since we can always just add more sides in the Dev League anyway, thus allowing people to get games regardless of how many older members are occupying spots beyond a natural career-length).
I still think that natural degenerating of the body should come into play for sure, though. As I said before, you could still increase in areas such as skills and mentality despite aging.
Don't get me wrong, I do understand where you're coming from - it's not a difficult thing to get your head around. Eventually, this will affect us all, no matter how much heart we put into the place. I just think that it's not so much hard for us to understand as it is hard for yourselves to accept this kind of change after having the belief of immortality for so long.
I also think that the fact that people see it as a punishment to not be one of the best as a blow to CW, as I think that people should love this league regardless of where they stand in their Dev League side, let alone to the international side.
If yourselves all thought that the 'changing of the guard' would happen regardless then I don't see why you would see this proposal as a problem, given that you would be leaving the side regardless anyway when your 'change of the guard' time comes along.
I definitely see the point of not being able to carry on with your own 'persona' though... ie NS Pickup, RJ Malone, etc. As a possible compromise... what if eventual retirement was to apply to the international side only, seeing as this problem would only ever apply to the international side (since we can always just add more sides in the Dev League anyway, thus allowing people to get games regardless of how many older members are occupying spots beyond a natural career-length).
I still think that natural degenerating of the body should come into play for sure, though. As I said before, you could still increase in areas such as skills and mentality despite aging.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
In two years' time, we'll be six seasons further in, and everyone else will have got their six seasons' experience skill points.
Loony BoB
International Captain
Six seasons after McGrath and Warne retire, if they were still playing on form would there be any chance of them being replaced? If the Windies players of the Viv Richards era were still able to play, would Bravo or Edwards ever have represented their country? If Australia still had their batting greats of the pre-90's, how many of today's Aussie batsmen would have a test to their name?
You have to realise that there is a sentimentality in cricket, one that means players who do brilliantly in domestic leagues to never represent their country. This is something that is accepted around the world, but if it were to be extended to an all-time ordeal then it simply wouldn't be cricket. The players in today's cricketing world, for the most part, would never have been selected if the countries around the world had immortal players, even if it was a possibility that the newer players may well be that smidgen better. The same goes for CWLand. If we allow for immortality then the newer players, even with the six seasons of experience points and even with great ability showing in the league, would never make the top level because there are already players that occupy their role that are doing well, and it's only natural for selectors to stick with what they know works.
Eventually there will be hundreds of players who will have reached their full six seasons - what will happen to those who still struggle to make their league side then, because their stats just happened to roll that way? Should those people, regardless of how long they stuck it out, regardless of how much effort they put into this place, be "punished" by never having the chance, purely because their form and stats just didn't play out well on the basis of luck (which is, after all, how a sim works - unless there is a rewards system implemented!).
You're constantly talking of yourselves as being punished when once you come down to it, you're the ones who will have had your share of fame for 25 seasons at some point.
Maybe it won't be you, maybe it will end up being Roberts, or Loganathan for all I know that will eventually become a person who is a legend and never is dropped because he's simply that good for that long, because his stats and the sims he played and the form he was given (not earned, as there is no current earning system when it comes to form, it's purely down to luck of the sim) just happened to play in his favour... and he ends up having stats that constantly improve. Meanwhile, what if Thomas or McNamara or Sajith eventually becomes a person who puts more effort and time into this place than anyone else, but fail to have such luck... who would be getting "punished" then?
This sim is not about punishments, it is not about earnings either. It's about luck, and I'm sure that everyone here is able to accept that much. Would Lillee, Bradman, Sobers or one of the Waugh brothers complain that they were "punished" when they retired or got old? No. They saw it as a fact of life, they saw it as reality, and the world moved on, and they moved with it, and new players took up their places in their side and that was that.
You made another point earlier about how there already is a changing of the guard. Yes, but not for every player. Some players I firmly believe will be there for a very, very long time, and that is what I'm getting at. I mean, in New Zealand's squad at the moment, there is also a changing of the guard similar to that which you talk about in CWXI. There are young players and old players. Just like it is in CWXI. The only difference is that the old players will eventually retire, they will age, and they accept that. New players will enter the CWXI, yes, but if after 30-40 seasons we still have players from the first season, then that's unrealistic. If Brett Lee was bowling 150-160kph when he was 50, would you consider that cricket? Hell no.
You have to realise that there is a sentimentality in cricket, one that means players who do brilliantly in domestic leagues to never represent their country. This is something that is accepted around the world, but if it were to be extended to an all-time ordeal then it simply wouldn't be cricket. The players in today's cricketing world, for the most part, would never have been selected if the countries around the world had immortal players, even if it was a possibility that the newer players may well be that smidgen better. The same goes for CWLand. If we allow for immortality then the newer players, even with the six seasons of experience points and even with great ability showing in the league, would never make the top level because there are already players that occupy their role that are doing well, and it's only natural for selectors to stick with what they know works.
Eventually there will be hundreds of players who will have reached their full six seasons - what will happen to those who still struggle to make their league side then, because their stats just happened to roll that way? Should those people, regardless of how long they stuck it out, regardless of how much effort they put into this place, be "punished" by never having the chance, purely because their form and stats just didn't play out well on the basis of luck (which is, after all, how a sim works - unless there is a rewards system implemented!).
You're constantly talking of yourselves as being punished when once you come down to it, you're the ones who will have had your share of fame for 25 seasons at some point.
Maybe it won't be you, maybe it will end up being Roberts, or Loganathan for all I know that will eventually become a person who is a legend and never is dropped because he's simply that good for that long, because his stats and the sims he played and the form he was given (not earned, as there is no current earning system when it comes to form, it's purely down to luck of the sim) just happened to play in his favour... and he ends up having stats that constantly improve. Meanwhile, what if Thomas or McNamara or Sajith eventually becomes a person who puts more effort and time into this place than anyone else, but fail to have such luck... who would be getting "punished" then?
This sim is not about punishments, it is not about earnings either. It's about luck, and I'm sure that everyone here is able to accept that much. Would Lillee, Bradman, Sobers or one of the Waugh brothers complain that they were "punished" when they retired or got old? No. They saw it as a fact of life, they saw it as reality, and the world moved on, and they moved with it, and new players took up their places in their side and that was that.
You made another point earlier about how there already is a changing of the guard. Yes, but not for every player. Some players I firmly believe will be there for a very, very long time, and that is what I'm getting at. I mean, in New Zealand's squad at the moment, there is also a changing of the guard similar to that which you talk about in CWXI. There are young players and old players. Just like it is in CWXI. The only difference is that the old players will eventually retire, they will age, and they accept that. New players will enter the CWXI, yes, but if after 30-40 seasons we still have players from the first season, then that's unrealistic. If Brett Lee was bowling 150-160kph when he was 50, would you consider that cricket? Hell no.
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cricketboy29
International Regular
As well as this, don't you think if we were to see Cloete one day, because of this retirement thing, struggling to get fifties, wouldnt that be so disheartening and disgusting. Speaking from an Indian standpoint, thats probably going to happen anyway in real life to Tendulkar. One of the most dissapointing things to see in a sportsman career, is to see a superstar not be able to match up to their previous standards. Ganguly for example, without this retirement thing, we'll never to confront that particular phenomenon, since theyre wont be an depreciation of stats. (As things stand now). So in my opinion, it comes down to saying 'would you rather have the natural way of retiring old superstars, and getting new ones, and saying to old members, "you've had your time in the sun, now shove off, and let us have a try" or just maintaining the status quo as it were.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
It's a legit point - or it would be if there was a basis to it.
There is not one player in this game who's shown any sign of being irreplaceable - or even close to it - over any length of time.
Even if there were, I'd like to hope nobody's enough of a **** to play on and on after 200+ Tests when it's obvious they're ****ing people off. If they were, I'd like to think the panel would retire them, anyway. Fixing it as a number of years is un-necessary.
There is not one player in this game who's shown any sign of being irreplaceable - or even close to it - over any length of time.
Even if there were, I'd like to hope nobody's enough of a **** to play on and on after 200+ Tests when it's obvious they're ****ing people off. If they were, I'd like to think the panel would retire them, anyway. Fixing it as a number of years is un-necessary.
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
Unless your talking about grade cricket i can't see that happenLoony BoB said:
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
It would be more fun to come back as something different i thinkAUST_HiTMaN said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Not that I can recall.Jamee999 said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Feexed.Nnanden said:Liam.
chaminda_00
Hall of Fame Member
Just thought i would bring the following posts to your attention Liam, you seem to have forgotten to put our ages on the first post
chaminda_00 said:
SirBloody Idiot said:
TIF said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Ees feexed.