StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Just had a quick look through Hadlee's career... you would probably be amazed to see the number of times NZ lost even though Hadlee took wickets just because of the low NZ innings totals.
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Hadlee vs Kallis
- Thread starter BazBall21
- Start date
Neil Young
State Vice-Captain
Well, yeah, of course Kallis would have had a big impact in that 80s NZ side. But he didn't play for them.
Though, as I said earlier, it's an oranges and apples comparison for me. Hadlee is an ATG bowler. Kallis isn't anywhere near, but he's an ATG allrounder for sure. And Hadlee isn't.
Neil Young
State Vice-Captain
I'd wager a 10yo Kallis was still better than Vaughan Brown.
Kallis is a much better bowler than Hadlee is a bat. He was (admittedly fairly mediocre) specialist quality quick for longer than almost every quick bar the greats. The fact that his team requirements meant he didn't bowl much doesn't detract from his quality (much).
Hadlee, even at his peak, was not a mediocre quality specialist bat (the fact that he was specialist quality by his own team standards doesn't add to this at all).
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
I was going to say the same thing. Even if Hadlee was Chris Martin with the bat he'd still be my choice
subshakerz
International Coach
Hadlee for half of his career was averaging 33 with the bat which for 80s standards is pretty decent.
Kallis may be a bit better in his second discipline, but not enough to make up for the gulf in their primary ones.
srbhkshk
International Captain
~That just means he was barely averaging 20 for the other half of it which would struggle to even qualify for an all-rounder.
ashley bach
Cricketer Of The Year
Man this is some kind of interesting match up for sure, 2 giants of the game, and each player a mile better than the other in each department.
Having read just a few comments I thought I'd pause and read the rest later, it's not as much fun giving an opinion after reading all and gaining biased thoughts. However I did see that red ink octopus pointed out Kallis has more man of the matches than anyone in test cricket.
Wow this cannot be ignored no matter which way you dissect it, such a record is no small thing.
As a kiwi fan Hadlee was gold, without doubt he was our Bradman of cricket. He was single-handedly responsible for the most remarkable decade
of cricket for NZ in the 80's where home defeat seemed almost impossible, and it all started against the powerful WI in 1980.
What really sets him apart from many other great bowlers though, was his master series in Australia in 85/86.
His 33 wickets at an average of 12 in that series has been unrivalled, and without him NZ would still be without a series victory in Australia.
Sir Paddles for me just tips over the great Jacques, and that's without any bias put into the equation.
Having read just a few comments I thought I'd pause and read the rest later, it's not as much fun giving an opinion after reading all and gaining biased thoughts. However I did see that red ink octopus pointed out Kallis has more man of the matches than anyone in test cricket.
Wow this cannot be ignored no matter which way you dissect it, such a record is no small thing.
As a kiwi fan Hadlee was gold, without doubt he was our Bradman of cricket. He was single-handedly responsible for the most remarkable decade
of cricket for NZ in the 80's where home defeat seemed almost impossible, and it all started against the powerful WI in 1980.
What really sets him apart from many other great bowlers though, was his master series in Australia in 85/86.
His 33 wickets at an average of 12 in that series has been unrivalled, and without him NZ would still be without a series victory in Australia.
Sir Paddles for me just tips over the great Jacques, and that's without any bias put into the equation.
Neil Young
State Vice-Captain
Lies, damn lies and statistics, though.
Hadlee had 8 man of the series awards from 33 efforts. Kallis had 9 from 61.
Even if we say Hadlee’s bowling > Kallis’ batting, Kallis’ bowling >> Hadlee’s batting easily.
Hadlee was bit like Ashwin; a bowler who can bat once in a while but never really a true all rounder. Kallis on the other hand would have got into some international sides based on his bowling alone. Add to this, his sublime slip fielding and it’s really no contest for me..
Hadlee was bit like Ashwin; a bowler who can bat once in a while but never really a true all rounder. Kallis on the other hand would have got into some international sides based on his bowling alone. Add to this, his sublime slip fielding and it’s really no contest for me..
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
So Hadlee only played 33 series to Kallis 61?....
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wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
I wonder when they introduced POTS awards, and how widely they were used after they were first introduced.
Hadlee did indeed take part in 33 series.
And Kallis did take part in 61 series
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
I was surprised too. But I'd also be surprised if there were any POTS awards in the 1970s.
EDIT
This from the bottom of cricinfo's list of POTS awards:
Series awards have only been a regular feature in Tests since the mid-1980s and the list is not complete for earlier matches
And here's the link:
Test matches | Individual records (captains, players, umpires) | Most player-of-the-series awards | ESPNcricinfo
Find records of Most player-of-the-series awards in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.
stats.espncricinfo.com
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trundler
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Hell no. It's the other way around.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Not really surprised... was not really my point.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Er, OK. I thought you were less than convinced about the 33 vs 61 series, but I must have misunderstood you.
If you don't mind me asking, what was your point in that particular post?
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Sarcasm...
My irritation with these threads is the bull**** made up to try give a reason for a personal preference, particularly around Kallis, because of the high quantity of bull**** that I read every time his name is brought up.
Prefer Hadlee, no problem... no need to make **** up about Kallis and reduce his achievements to prove your preference is correct... that is largely pathetic. Personal preference needs no justification and that is all this is.
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I pretty much agree with that actually. I've been around long enough to know that a lot of Saffers object to what they see as Kallis being criminally underrated; not without reason, some of the time. So I just don't usually go there, but I thought I'd dip in today.