sayon basak
Cricketer Of The Year
Kallis should definitely be higher than you, as he's a better batsman than you imo.
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Garry Sobers vs Jacques Kallis
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Agonizingly Awkward
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Kallis is easily better than Hammond
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Not as a bat or fielder.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I could definitely put Kallis 4 in an overall Test cricketer list on a good day but I juggle him around with those others I listed. I'd probably only have one or two specialists in the 10 if factor in that I don't entirely consider Marshall to be a specialist (McGrath the better bowler IMO but by such an insignificant margin that I consider Marshall better as a cricketer).
For an imaginary higher level of cricket (ATG stuff), very small margins of difference in primary skill matter more, and secondary skills fall away. But for real cricket that was actually played, the negligible difference in primary skills between someone like Kallis and Tendulkar or McGrath and Hadlee barely registers.
This is also why I'd rather have Woakes than Anderson in a county game.
Agonizingly Awkward
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Arguably a better bat. Hammond struggled against pace and his average is propped up by batting in a batting friendly era.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Kallis also had a very batting friendly era.
Agonizingly Awkward
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
But his home conditions were not batting friendly
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fair enough that's his biggest selling point.
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Still surprised at you having Kallis as a top 10 bat though
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Kallis executing a forward defence was my avatar on this forum for a year or so.
Johan
International Coach
Nah, Hammond didn't struggle with pace, he made 4 hundreds in 10 innings against Larwood and Voce in FC.
Hammond vs Larwood and Voce
10 innings, 564 runs @ 62.66, 4 hundreds.
he struggled a bit with accurate spin bowling near his legs on English wickets but dismantled the same bowling style in Australia. His only real flaw was a struggle with Learie Constantine.
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shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
I kind of agree with him, but I know you don't.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
We definitely disagree on a lot, but I do admire the consistency of the rankings.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
That I fully agree with, but that also shows up in high end (actual ATG) competitive series as well.
The secondary skills falls away there as well, and the margins in primary stands out.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Always omitted.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
It was more the short pitched bowling rather than pace bowling per say. And yes, spin also gave him trouble at home, but on those Australian pitches no type of bowling was going to be effective.
Even greater props to O'Reilly.
Johan
International Coach
Not really true, England was significantly higher scoring than Australia in the 1930s, the batting average in England was in excess of 32 while in Australia it was 29, English ashes was also substantially higher scoring than the Australian Ashes. The Aussie pitches were unproductive for pace bowling but seems pretty obvious they were made for the Australian spinners like Grimmett, Ironmonger and O Reilly.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Think that Sobers is easily ahead of Kallis as a batsman. He had the extra gear, faced off against a plethora of great and ATG pacers and spinners and was better than Kallis vs swing, pace and swing, Kallis having his issues in a couple counties due to the conditions or opposition.
Kallis was perfection in the slips, everything in his range was taken. His range though wasn't quite what guys like Sobers, Richardson's, Waugh's etc were, so Sobers there as well, plus he was more versatile as he was equally brilliant in more positions.
Sobers's blowing load and effectiveness dwarfed that if Kallis. Once Sobers adopted pace, his basically averages 27 for a decade and was a legitimate front line bowler and mong the best in the world. He also offered unparalleled versatility.
Kallis was perfection in the slips, everything in his range was taken. His range though wasn't quite what guys like Sobers, Richardson's, Waugh's etc were, so Sobers there as well, plus he was more versatile as he was equally brilliant in more positions.
Sobers's blowing load and effectiveness dwarfed that if Kallis. Once Sobers adopted pace, his basically averages 27 for a decade and was a legitimate front line bowler and mong the best in the world. He also offered unparalleled versatility.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
Grimmett had a better average in England than he did in Australia vs England.
Johan
International Coach
That's mostly the Hammond effect, one of the big reasons The Don used to drop Grimmett was that Grimmett was utterly obliterated by Hammond everytime they crossed paths, the one time Grimmett got to face a Hammondless England in 1926, he took a tenfer. O Reilly iirc did better against England in Australia than the other way around, so I don't think that there was a big difference in the pitches, statistically the English ones were significantly flatter but there's higher chance of rain in England (bar Sydney) so I say they would be close in practise.