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Does Cricket need a strong Australia?

honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Sure.. but it was not something that they invented. Also, its not exactly a necessity even in today's game. But if you look at it post Gilchrist, the keeper needing to be a proper batsman is basically default these days.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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Haynes is another one long before these blokes who was pretty successful at belting the ball around while opening. Dunno if he was as aggressive as these guys though.

Agree with HB's point that aggressive openers hasn't become a necessity in Tests, but maybe to say 'Everything else were things that others teams were doing as well' would be slightly incorrect? Jayasuriya is the obvious one, and there's also Sehwag who debuted in the same year Hayden finally came good (in style, albeit 7 years after debut). So I guess spark's point is that it was just the two other teams doing it (unless I'm forgetting someone).
 
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honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Well, obviously, I didn't mean like EVERY team did everything Australia were doing. I just meant that out of the things that made that Aussie team special, the unique thing and their lasting impact was Gilchrist and the role he played. All the other things that made that team special, others have had on their side at some point or the other. Maybe this rewording clarifies that a bit?


I mean Warne was an awesome spinner but there were awesome spinners before him, even from Australia. Same with 6 very good quality batsmen for the time. Great fast bowling attack, check. So that is what I was trying to say.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Eh I think overall the fact that they were such aggressive bats all over (Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist especially) was much more a hallmark of their style of play than Gilchrist alone, who just happened to be someone who could have been a world class #3 who could also keep at a Test level.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
But are we not talking about two different things here? Aggressive batting line ups were a thing of that team, sure, but as I said, I do not see it as a legacy of them as much as the Gilchrist role has become if you look at international cricket overall. Guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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Hayden being an over-aggressive Test Batsman is a bit of a myth IMO. People think of him that way because when he did play the big shots he was so excessive about it, eg. Walking down the pitch and slapping over midwicket, lots of sixes etc. But he left alone more deliveries outside off than most openers I've seen and had a lot of very slow innings'.

Don't get me wrong, he was probably above-average in terms of scoring rate, but he was no Sehwag or Jayasuriya
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
Daemon said:
Haynes is another one long before these blokes who was pretty successful at belting the ball around while opening. Dunno if he was as aggressive as these guys though.

Agree with HB's point that aggressive openers hasn't become a necessity in Tests, but maybe to say 'Everything else were things that others teams were doing as well' would be slightly incorrect? Jayasuriya is the obvious one, and there's also Sehwag who debuted in the same year Hayden finally came good (in style, albeit 7 years after debut). So I guess spark's point is that it was just the two other teams doing it (unless I'm forgetting someone).
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Hayden was hugely influential in Sehwag's success tbh. Remember reading a Sehwag interview sometime back when he spoke about how he watched Hayden as a young bloke growing up and tried to emulate him in the back yard. He was also present in the crowd with his dad when Hayden made a double ton in Chennai.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Gob said:
Hayden was hugely influential in Sehwag's success tbh. Remember reading a Sehwag interview sometime back when he spoke about how he watched Hayden as a young bloke growing up and tried to emulate him in the back yard. He was also present in the crowd with his dad when Hayden made a double ton in Chennai.
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He made his international debut in the same series where Hayden came good and made his test debut later in the same year.
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
honestbharani said:
He made his international debut in the same series where Hayden came good and made his test debut later in the same year.
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Yeh this is true. Hayden debuted in 1994 but didn't actually establish himself in tests until 2000.

Around the same time as Ambrose, Walsh and Donald were retiring/fading, coincidentally....
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Flem274* said:
ok richard
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I dont really get what that means, I've only heard of Richard, wasn't here when he was here?

Guessing that he agreed with my opinion that Hayden really wasn't that good against very good quick bowlers.
 
morgieb

morgieb

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Red Hill said:
I dont really get what that means, I've only heard of Richard, wasn't here when he was here?

Guessing that he agreed with my opinion that Hayden really wasn't that good against very good quick bowlers.
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Went a lot further than that. Basically said he wouldn't have been test standard in another era.
 
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