Dennis Lillee vs Sunil Gavaskar

[capt_Luffy]

pathetic individual.

That's honestly one of the worst thing I have ever read a player say about another.....

 

[subshakerz]

This one is close but I think Lillee.

 

[Johan]

Just thought I'd mention what Gavaskar said about Lillee in his 1984 book 'Idols'

"Dennis Lillee is the greatest fast bowler in cricketing history”

I think everyone should respect Sunny's opinion and vote Lillee

Funnily, Lillee DID NOT return the same respect to Gavaskar, like at all, perhaps this comment made Sunny G racist to Australians...

“I know he was a great batsman but I cannot rate him among the great batsmen I bowled against. I rated Gavaskar of medium quality only and I have not changed my mind.”

Ruthless.

 

[subshakerz]

Funnily, Lillee DID NOT return the same respect to Gavaskar, like at all, perhaps this comment made Sunny G racist to Australians...

“I know he was a great batsman but I cannot rate him among the great batsmen I bowled against. I rated Gavaskar of medium quality only and I have not changed my mind.”

Ruthless.

Ouch. Imran rated Gavaskar highly. But then Holding also saw him as a fairweather bat.

 

[Johan]

Ouch. Imran rated Gavaskar highly. But then Holding also saw him as a fairweather bat.

I looked into statistics and on why Lillee would rate Gavaskar so lowly and stumbled on the World XI tour of Australia in 1971 where they'd face off and Lillee would dominate, they were considered tests at the time and world XI tours in mid 2000s were considered tests so directly translateable to test. Overall, Gavaskar's record in games with Lillee is 307 runs @ 23.6 with two fifties/no hundreds in 14 innings, Lillee got him six times, his average overall in Australia with the first vs Lillee tour is 43.5. Also, Lillee in the same games has 45 wkts @ 20.75 in just 7 games. I guess Lillee believed in H2H matchups.

Imran also kinda whack in some of the stuff he says but that's a matter for another time.

 

[subshakerz]

I looked into statistics and on why Lillee would rate Gavaskar so lowly and stumbled on the World XI tour of Australia in 1971 where they'd face off and Lillee would dominate, they were considered tests at the time and world XI tours in mid 2000s were considered tests so directly translateable to test. Overall, Gavaskar's record in games with Lillee is 307 runs @ 23.6 with two fifties/no hundreds in 14 innings, Lillee got him six times, his average overall in Australia with the first vs Lillee tour is 43.5. Also, Lillee in the same games has 45 wkts @ 20.75 in just 7 games. I guess Lillee believed in H2H matchups.

Imran also kinda whack in some of the stuff he says but that's a matter for another time.

I mean he scored better against Imran so not surprised for him rating him higher. But yeah Gavaskar also wasn't outstanding vs Hadlee. Finding this out made me rate him a bit lower.

 

[Johan]

I mean he scored better against Imran so not surprised for him rating him higher. But yeah Gavaskar also wasn't outstanding vs Hadlee. Finding this out made me rate him a bit lower.

I think I remember mentioning that yeah.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Toss up for me....

 

[DrWolverine]

Sunny

Only elite opener in the last 75 years.
He also proved himself in more places.

 

[Johan]

Funnily, Lillee DID NOT return the same respect to Gavaskar, like at all, perhaps this comment made Sunny G racist to Australians...

“I know he was a great batsman but I cannot rate him among the great batsmen I bowled against. I rated Gavaskar of medium quality only and I have not changed my mind.”

Ruthless.

for a final twist of the knife, Lillee said

Lillee instead gives the pride of place to the stylish Viswanath, Gavaskar’s brother-in-law. Viswanath was the best batsman against Australia “who made runs against us and regularly at that”.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I looked into statistics and on why Lillee would rate Gavaskar so lowly and stumbled on the World XI tour of Australia in 1971 where they'd face off and Lillee would dominate, they were considered tests at the time and world XI tours in mid 2000s were considered tests so directly translateable to test. Overall, Gavaskar's record in games with Lillee is 307 runs @ 23.6 with two fifties/no hundreds in 14 innings, Lillee got him six times, his average overall in Australia with the first vs Lillee tour is 43.5. Also, Lillee in the same games has 45 wkts @ 20.75 in just 7 games. I guess Lillee believed in H2H matchups.

Imran also kinda whack in some of the stuff he says but that's a matter for another time.

71 was Gavaskar's 3rd Series overall though and IIRC, that was also a quite low scoring series overall from the RoW with Sobers also only having that 254* as the only 50+ score and scoring 87 runs in his other 8 innings. Only Rohan Kanhai scored regularly. Also IIRC, that Series never had Test status.

 

[Johan]

71 was Gavaskar's 3rd Series overall though and IIRC, that was also a quite low scoring series overall with Sobers also only having that 254* as the only 50+ score. Also IIRC, that Series never had Test status.

Yeah but Lillee also had played 2 tests going into that match, the RPW of the series seems about 35 so not really too bowling friendly too much, seems fine to me.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah but Lillee also had played 2 tests going into that match, the RPW of the series seems about 35 so not really too bowling friendly too much, seems fine to me.

Surely so you can see Lillee did Great as a newbie. Doesn't means Sunny wasn't a newbie, does it?? I also think the Australians scored quite heavily that Series, with Greg averaging 100+ and Ian and Walters in the 70s. His average was hardly different than most ATG batsmen in their first tough tour Really.

 

[Johan]

Surely so you can see Lillee did Great as a newbie. Doesn't means Sunny wasn't a newbie, does it?? I also think the Australians scored quite heavily that Series, with Greg averaging 100+ and Ian and Walters in the 70s. His average was hardly different than most ATG batsmen in their first tough tour Really.

We can say both were early careers but that would surely effect the rating of Gavaskar that Lillee would've, and the rating of Lillee that Gavaskar would have, and I think both guys were beasts off the start anyway (Lillee took a fifer in first international spell, Gavaskar had the 1971 Windies series and crossed 50 thrice in his first three innings).

 

[Sliferxxxx]

71 was Gavaskar's 3rd Series overall though and IIRC, that was also a quite low scoring series overall from the RoW with Sobers also only having that 254* as the only 50+ score and scoring 87 runs in his other 8 innings. Only Rohan Kanhai scored regularly. Also IIRC, that Series never had Test status.

I believe the ICC initially included stats from the two ROW series in a players tests statistics but later reversed that decision.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I believe the ICC initially included stats from the two ROW series in a players tests statistics but later reversed that decision.

I thought that was just for the RoW vs England Series.

 

[capt_Luffy]

We can say both were early careers but that would surely effect the rating of Gavaskar that Lillee would've, and the rating of Lillee that Gavaskar would have, and I think both guys were beasts off the start anyway (Lillee took a fifer in first international spell, Gavaskar had the 1971 Windies series and crossed 50 thrice in his first three innings).

Actually post the 71 WI Series, Gavaskar made 1 Test Century till 75. Had a Great start, especially the amount of runs; but mellowed down then for a few good years. I wasn't talking about why that Series influences Lillee's ratings on him though.

 

[Johan]

Actually post the 71 WI Series, Gavaskar made 1 Test Century till 75. Had a Great start, especially the amount of runs; but mellowed down then for a few good years.

I know he had his issues with Underwood and played England a ton in that timeframe but most people have early career struggles, Including his peers in Viv and Chappell, I don't think we can just discard it.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I know he had his issues with Underwood and played England a ton in that timeframe but most people have early career struggles, Including his peers in Viv and Chappell, I don't think we can just discard it.

Don't saying to discard that, just putting it in the context.

 

[Johan]

Don't saying to discard that, just putting it in the context.

Fair enough